Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

polygon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 375 posts

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#51

Post by Zikes »

arrrg wrote: post #43
Zikes wrote: post #26

This is the sort of journalism I would expect to find on Jezebel, rather than Polygon. Filled with us vs. them mentality: no man can understand, men all think this, men always tell us that. Men never deal with harassment, death threats, or rape threats. Well, here's a little variation on Hitchens' Razor: what can be proven with anecdotal evidence can be dismissed with anecdotal evidence. http://www.edge-online.com/fe…

Not all men, eh? Don’t be so sensitive, grow a thicker skin! Is it really so hard for you to believe that you can’t understand – at least not completely – the situation someone is in? I would never be so arrogant as to believe that I, as someone who is straight, understand how it is to grow up gay, for example.

It's good to see that sloganeering and thought-terminating cliches will drive what could have been a proper debate on the issue.

I guess there's no room at all for dissenting opinions, especially when they point out hypocrisies or bring counter evidence to the discussion.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#52

Post by hnnewguy »

Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

>I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought

It's pretty much my first thought when I see any woman (and some men). I can't help it, it's the product of us being animals. Who cares. I don't feel guilty, and certainly don't hate myself for it.

>I hope I don't have a daughter.

Oh brother...

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#53

Post by jarin »

arrrg wrote: post #29
jarin wrote: post #20

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging…

I do see women’s femininity (or lack of masculinity, actually!), loyalty, especially abilities, work ethic and/or integrity attacked all the time. I don’t really understand why you are under the impression that doesn’t happen to women. The objectification and threats of (sexual) violence happen in addition to that. Again, you seem to argue that there is some kind of balance in harassment and both men and women receiv…

I'm not arguing that one bit. I'm trying to have a conversation about WHY there is an imbalance.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#54

Post by Gracana »

rayiner wrote: post #34
jarin wrote: post #20

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging…

Someone calling you a pencil dick doesn't cut you. Its just words, not grounded in anything the speaker knows about you. What's scary about rape threats is that it points out an uncomfortable truth: the 95th percentile women is about as strong in the upper body as the 5th percentile man. The guy making the rape threat knows that and so does the target. Its backed by reality in a way most comments directed at men aren…

It's also backed up by a culture that tells women they're responsible for their own assault/rape/harassment, so defying these threats means you're also defying the people who say it's your own fault, go somewhere else, you're asking for it, etc.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#55

Post by chaostheory »

chillingeffect wrote: post #35
EarthLaunch wrote: post #6

What should a game studio to do counter this and make its employees safe from it?

Protip: Form an all-female software company. Gender-discriminatory hiring practices don't apply to small companies. See Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42 U.S.C. 2000e and following). Title VII applies to employers that fit into the following categories: private employers with at least 15 employees. 14 Women can get together and not hire any men if they want. They can make software for women and get rich a…

Reverse discrimination isn't much of an answer. It's just a temporary hack that doesn't fix the real problem.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#56

Post by cobrausn »

eli wrote: post #45
jarin wrote: post #20

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging…

Do male video game employees have people texting them death threats with their home address too?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/23/game-devel...

"Sometimes, things get worse than just angry emails and tweets – one developer said that the threats that made him lose sleep were the ones that involved his children. Sometimes people start saying that they know a developer’s home address. Bowling says that he started receiving suspicious packages – never a good sign in the modern era."

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#57

Post by [deleted] »

Zikes wrote: post #26

This is the sort of journalism I would expect to find on Jezebel, rather than Polygon. Filled with us vs. them mentality: no man can understand, men all think this, men always tell us that. Men never deal with harassment, death threats, or rape threats. Well, here's a little variation on Hitchens' Razor: what can be proven with anecdotal evidence can be dismissed with anecdotal evidence. http://www.edge-online.com/fe…

[deleted]

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#58

Post by cheez »

eli wrote: post #21
cheez wrote: post #17

> I lead a development studio that makes games. Sometimes, I write about issues in the games industry that relate to the equality of women. My reward is that I regularly have men threatening to rape and commit acts of violence against me. My suspicion is that she is not threatened because she leads a development studio, but because she is a writer. She's not asking for it, but she is making herself a public figure an…

I get what you're saying... but I think you're getting downvoted because it's dangerously close to victim-blaming. No matter what they wrote, nobody ever deserves graphic threats of rape and murder. And, c'mon, by your definition pretty much anyone with an internet presence and an opinion is a public figure, and therefore a "target." I don't think that's a helpful way to approach the problem.

In the area of competitive sports, it is pretty common to receive death threats for athletes who do not perform well.

I'm not saying it's right. It's not. I'm saying that the reader needs to tease apart the two.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#59

Post by eli »

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #37
eli wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a good question, but what practical things can an employer do here? The harassment isn't really happening "at" work, it's coming in through tumblr and personal blogs. And (I hope!!) the people sending these threats are not other employees.

Actually, it happens through various mediums gaming companies control, such as in-game communication, forums, and the like. Companies can, and should, take vigorous legal action against customers who issue such threats. It would be a good start.

No offense, but did you read the article? It's about women who are harassed for working in the game industry, not playing games.

I agree with you, though, that game companies should generally take a hard line on abusive in-game behavior.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#60

Post by jarin »

eli wrote: post #45
jarin wrote: post #20

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging…

Do male video game employees have people texting them death threats with their home address too?

Yes. Probably not in proportion, but it does happen regularly.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-...

http://iphoenixdown.com/2013/08/16/video-games-and-death-thr...

Post reply on HN