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At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

arstechnica.com

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Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#51

Post by singingfish »

downandout wrote: post #8

"Climate Change Denier" is a term coined by radical environmentalists in an attempt to paint their opponents as crazy and stupid. Most rational people don't deny that climate change is occurring. Many people simply side with scientists that have examined the facts and determined that human attempts at trying to control climate change are about as effective as Indian rain dances. That said, Tim Cook's response was cor…

Sorry, climate change deniers are stupid and crazy and/or evil. I prefer to call them climate delusionals. Right now we have a choice to either try to ameliorate climate change, or ignore it and watch civilisation collapse over the next century or so. It's a hard problem scientifically and politically, and the delusionals and their loby groups should receive nothing but contempt and derision.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#52

Post by mikeyouse »

yeukhon wrote: post #23

NCPPR demanded that Apple discontinue the programs and commit only to projects that are explicitly profitable. The word demanded seems to be a very very strong statement. It's almost like a command. I'd be really surprised if that was really the word NCPPR used in the letter. encouraged , or suggested would be better. What power does NCPPR has over Apple to demand Apple to take action X? To climate change deniers out…

Page 63 here has the precise language:

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AAPL/2993150551x0x717...

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#53

Post by sgustard »

downandout wrote: post #29
jjoonathan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this group [does not deny] that climate change is occurring But their press release says > Apple is wasting untold amounts of shareholder money to combat so-called climate change. which sounds like denial to me. Would you prefer to call them "Climate Change Skeptics," the term coined by radical conservatives to attempt to paint themselves as not crazy and anti-scientific? Everyone plays the "name yourself according…

"Climate change" used to be "global warming" until that term became so strongly associated with extremists that it instantly damaged the credibility of anyone that used it. "Climate Change Skeptics" communicates the same thing as "deniers". You are missing the point. Most people agree that climate change (aka global warming) is occurring. The argument is over whether we can cause it or stop it.

It's no longer called global warming because it's too easy for deniers to say, "Look, it's cold! Polar vortex! Therefore it's not happening!" The new terminology is supported by climate scientists to avoid giving the deniers a strawman to argue.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#54

Post by kbenson »

gus_massa wrote: post #46
nl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Global warming dropped from use because it is inaccurate (or more precicly is too broad to be useful). While the global temperature is increasing, there are places that see a decrease. Usually this is due to either changing rainfall patterns (ie, former deserts that now get rain) or changes in ocean currents (eg the potential movement in the current that keeps the UK warm). Climate change is more accurate for people…

> Global warming dropped from use because it is inaccurate (or more precicly is too broad to be useful). Well, "Climate change" is even broader than "Global warming".

The point is that it's broad in a specific way that makes it easy to misinterpret. Global average temperature increase may not yield local average temperature increase, and the reasons can be complex. Having to first explain that to people that are seeing the opposite of what global warming seems to be saying is a road-block to useful discourse.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#55

Post by Geekette »

How much of Apple stock does NCPPR own anyway? Amusing to see that nowhere in its long whiny press release does it announce that it will divest itself of AAPL. Whatever happened to putting your money where your mouth is or voting with your feet?

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#56

Post by singingfish »

specialist wrote: post #47
Daishiman wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the use of green energy goes towards investment in green energies that will lower the price of it, with the difference that the supply of nonrenewables is limited, whereas the others are not.

It's also risk mitigation. Supplying your own electricity from solar farms is a pretty good way to avoid price volatility.

That's one reason why I invested around $30,000 in renewable energy features (passive and active) in the house I built last year. $3k per year amortised over 10 years for a low operating cost system, comfortable living and working environmnet? It's a no brainer.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#57

Post by rayiner »

downandout wrote: post #8

"Climate Change Denier" is a term coined by radical environmentalists in an attempt to paint their opponents as crazy and stupid. Most rational people don't deny that climate change is occurring. Many people simply side with scientists that have examined the facts and determined that human attempts at trying to control climate change are about as effective as Indian rain dances. That said, Tim Cook's response was cor…

It has always struck me as rather ridiculous to make a big deal about the distinction between anthropogenic and non-anthropogenic climate change. Whether or not climate change is anthropogenic, it is going to require a response. The argument might be that efforts should be directed at mitigating the negative effects of climate change, because it is futile to try and avert it, but climate change deniers aren't making that argument either. Indeed, if they really did concede that climate change is happening, but believed that it wasn't anthropogenic, then they should be even more worked up about it than the "radical environmentalists," because that would mean that Illinois is going to have the climate of Texas and there is nothing we can do about it other than figure out how to live with the resulting fallout.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#58

Post by downandout »

nailer wrote: post #15
downandout wrote: post #8

"Climate Change Denier" is a term coined by radical environmentalists in an attempt to paint their opponents as crazy and stupid. Most rational people don't deny that climate change is occurring. Many people simply side with scientists that have examined the facts and determined that human attempts at trying to control climate change are about as effective as Indian rain dances. That said, Tim Cook's response was cor…

Including the founder of Greenpeace http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/gree...

Interesting..."There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth's atmosphere over the past 100 years," he told a US Senate Committee "If there were such a proof, it would be written down for all to see. No actual proof, as it is understood in science, exists."

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#59

Post by singingfish »

Tycho wrote: post #22

It seems that we've now shifted fully from 'global warming' to 'climate change.'

It's a more accurate term. While climate change will cause increased temperatures, it also causes increased variability in weather.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#60

Post by danielweber »

rayiner wrote: post #57
downandout wrote: post #8

"Climate Change Denier" is a term coined by radical environmentalists in an attempt to paint their opponents as crazy and stupid. Most rational people don't deny that climate change is occurring. Many people simply side with scientists that have examined the facts and determined that human attempts at trying to control climate change are about as effective as Indian rain dances. That said, Tim Cook's response was cor…

It has always struck me as rather ridiculous to make a big deal about the distinction between anthropogenic and non-anthropogenic climate change. Whether or not climate change is anthropogenic, it is going to require a response. The argument might be that efforts should be directed at mitigating the negative effects of climate change, because it is futile to try and avert it, but climate change deniers aren't making…

Among my conservative friends, quite a few say "well, it's happening, but we don't know humans are causing it." So they are already there. "Adaptation, not mitigation" is one of their sayings, and it gets the environmentalists really mad.

FWIW, I agree with you that the cause matters less than the effects.

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