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N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#51

Post by codex »

Every organization generates information of some kind; nation states especially, but even aid groups and corporations. Spying on the heads of these organizations is a very efficient way to get at the most important, post-filtered information these groups have uncovered or generated.

If you assume NSA spying net benefits the United States, then a U.S. citizen should count it beneficial that the extent of the surveillance is so comprehensive. If you don't, or have interests not aligned with the U.S., these revelations are pretty horrible.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#52

Post by mcphilip »

wil421 wrote: post #21
bananacurve wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German companies had their trade secrets stolen by American intelligence agencies, which in turn gave those secrets to US competitors Do you have a source for that? As far as I can tell Germany wants tighter intelligence integration with the US and howls at the slightest mention of even reducing the size of US military bases on German soil.

>German companies had their trade secrets stolen by American intelligence agencies, which in turn gave those secrets to US competitors. I have yet to see anything like this in the news. Thats crazy to think the NSA is helping companies with trade secrets.

Innocent until proven guilty applies, of course, but there's an irony in the dismissal of a notion as crazy when juxtaposed with all the other Snowden revelations.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#53

Post by rgarrett88 »

fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

Not only that, think about what a security contractor with no positive incentives was able to collect and publish without NSA knowledge. We honestly have no idea what state secrets might have been sold to the highest bidder.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#54

Post by [deleted] »

flexie wrote: post #28
fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

In the last 20 years several American tech companies have grown huge with very little challenge from European antitrust or tax authorities. Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Apple, Amazon, Intel, Microsoft... Rules regarding abuse of dominant position could have been applied much stricter. Some of these companies have 90-something percent market share on several of the geographic and product markets they operate in. But no…

[deleted]

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#55

Post by oscargrouch »

4354325425 wrote: post #39
Zigurd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden revealed NSA hacked into Petrobras ahead of an important oilfield auction. The only use for that information would be setting bids. It's no small thing. Bids with insider information could cost Brasil tens of billions of dollars.

Is there any evidence that the NSA distributes any proprietary information about Petrobras or other foreign industries? How would the NSA choose which US company would receive the information? A lottery?

> Is there any evidence that the NSA distributes any proprietary information about Petrobras or other foreign industries?

Yes. the snowden revelations with tons of documents; i dont know what are you trying to defend here, but you are clearly very emotive in your argumentation line.. trying to dismiss everything without anything to back up your arguments..

are you under fire here?

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#56

Post by alan_cx »

Zigurd wrote: post #14

There are some curious things about the response to these revelations: 1. Zero "friendly" nations have gone beyond carping. If the NSA still thinks they can put the toothpaste back in the tube it's because nobody who matters has told them otherwise, much less acted on such a declaration. 2. Even more surprising is that zero small nations who are far down the "Eyes" hierarchy, have concluded they can't win, so they sh…

I'd love to see a Switzerland of data, but these days Switzerland isnt able to hide money any more, under pressure from, well, guess who...

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#57

Post by alan_cx »

4354325425 wrote: post #36
flexie wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last 20 years several American tech companies have grown huge with very little challenge from European antitrust or tax authorities. Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Apple, Amazon, Intel, Microsoft... Rules regarding abuse of dominant position could have been applied much stricter. Some of these companies have 90-something percent market share on several of the geographic and product markets they operate in. But no…

What did all of that have to do with the NSA? How would US espionage force the EU from prosecuting or legislating against these companies?

By allowing these companies to be one step ahead of any EU action.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#60

Post by bananacurve »

alan_cx wrote: post #57
4354325425 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did all of that have to do with the NSA? How would US espionage force the EU from prosecuting or legislating against these companies?

By allowing these companies to be one step ahead of any EU action.

Of course their is no way that Europe's tech failings are because of their foolish regulatory nonsense, it has to be that America's cheating. That is a great way to ensure irrelevance.
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