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CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

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Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#51

Post by Tichy »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #5
iwwr wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more about bacteria getting antibiotic resistence in animals and those get eventually passed to humans. Antibiotics are pretty much a non-renewable resource, the more they're used, the lesser their effectiveness. Using them on livestock, or even excessively on humans would leave humans with a dangerous lack of medical defence against harmful bacteria.

"It's more about bacteria getting antibiotic resistence in animals and those get eventually passed to humans." This can happen, but most of the bacteria found in animals are species-specific and don't get "passed" to us in the sense that you could "catch" flu or TB from another human. The real danger is "horizontal gene transfer" [1], where different kinds of bacteria exchange genes - including those for antibiotic r…

A lot of epidemic diseases that plague us come from animal farming. Ever wondered why diseases have names like "chicken pox" or "pig flu"?

That effect might even have helped in conquering the Americas, because the conquerors where used to such diseases and the natives where not.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#52

Post by aluhut »

swombat wrote: post #47
aluhut wrote: post #33

I grew up in a former East Block country. Back then we had medical centers. If you were sick, you went there and they gave you something. Most of the time the solution was: Antibiotics. Because I was sick quite often, I can say I grew up on Antibiotics. When we moved to West Europe my mother made the mistake of chosing a doctor from our country (so she could uderstand what she says). So I continued to get antibiotics…

I don't know how this is possible after my very hard childhood but I just don't get sick anymore. Sounds like whatever your doctors did worked miracles. No serious illness for 20 years? If this experiment could be repeated at scale, and proved to apply to others, everyone should receive the same antibiotics treatment you had!

I don't know if 15/16 years of badly cured diseases with a pneumonia finale grande are really a solution here.

I don't even want to start with the side effects.

But yeah, funny ;)

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#53

Post by rdtsc »

r0h1n wrote: post #34
velodrome wrote: post #4

People need stop using antibiotics for everything and use it only when necessary. When Drugs Stop Working-Norway's Answer: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-6014559.html

> Norwegians are sanguine about their coughs and colds, toughing it out through low-grade infections. > "We don't throw antibiotics at every person with a fever. We tell them to hang on, wait and see, and we give them a Tylenol to feel better," says Haug. I wish more of us would follow this approach and learn to accept being 'sick' for a few days (or even a week) every now and then.

What I noticed in US is that people are very touchy about being uncomfortable. Doctors are supposed to "fix" problems and make things "comfortable". This usually means "give me antibiotics to kill this infections as fast as possible" and "give me more pain pills, I don't want to feel any slight discomfort". If doctor tells them to drink some hot tea and lay in bed instead they might just switch doctors who will give them antibiotics. Or say a doctor decides that well you can get opiates for your pain but you might become dependent so take some aspirin and tough it out -- that won't work with many.

I know I am painting with a broad brush and with a sample of 30 or so acquaintances from both sides of the "pond" here, but it was my impression so far.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#54

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

aluhut wrote: post #33

I grew up in a former East Block country. Back then we had medical centers. If you were sick, you went there and they gave you something. Most of the time the solution was: Antibiotics. Because I was sick quite often, I can say I grew up on Antibiotics. When we moved to West Europe my mother made the mistake of chosing a doctor from our country (so she could uderstand what she says). So I continued to get antibiotics…

If you read Dr. Art Ayers he says antibiotic usage is almost a catastrophe for a person's health. The gut biome never fully recovers and the consequence is all kinds of strange inflammatory diseases, which of course are now epidemic in the West.

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#55

Post by andyjohnson0 »

Tichy wrote: post #51
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's more about bacteria getting antibiotic resistence in animals and those get eventually passed to humans." This can happen, but most of the bacteria found in animals are species-specific and don't get "passed" to us in the sense that you could "catch" flu or TB from another human. The real danger is "horizontal gene transfer" [1], where different kinds of bacteria exchange genes - including those for antibiotic r…

A lot of epidemic diseases that plague us come from animal farming. Ever wondered why diseases have names like "chicken pox" or "pig flu"? That effect might even have helped in conquering the Americas, because the conquerors where used to such diseases and the natives where not.

Direct transmission of diseases (such as flu) from animals to humans certainly can happen: thats why I wrote "this can happen" in my comment. However, its not a significant vector in the spread of antibiotic resistance.

BTW, Chicken Pox affects only humans and some other primates. The virus that causes it, varicella zoster, doesn't infect chickens or other fowl. And, being a virus, it has nothing to do with antibiotic resistance either.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#56

Post by g8oz »

smackay wrote: post #9
rurounijones wrote: post #7

while post anti-biotic sucks for humans directly. What about post-antibiotic for livestock which forms our food sources. If we can no longer raise as many cattle, pigs, sheep etc. then what are the global implications.

Quite simple: healthier humans and more sustainable agriculture. From Yahoo Answers: it takes 17 kilos of corn, beans, grains, etc, to produce one kilo of beef in feedlot cattle. Having a large proportion of meat in one's diet is not the most efficient use of the available (limited) resources we have.

Here is a thought experiment: who can pay more for those 17 kilos of grain? An American who wants his steak dinner or a family of Ugandans? What are the implications of the answer?

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#58

Post by jacquesm »

haldujai wrote: post #45
jacquesm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's impossible for bacteria in animals to ever affect humans Those farmers should read the book 'spillover'. According to some papers 60% of all pathogens has in recent times jumped from some other species to humanity, and depending on how rigidly you define species you can add the other 40% too.

Their logic is that the meat will be cooked killing all bacteria and denaturing and DNA remnants. What spillover discusses is referred to as zoonosis, and that's when the animal is alive (or carries a vector that is).

To cook it you have to be in contact with it first.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#59

Post by parennoob »

r0h1n wrote: post #34
velodrome wrote: post #4

People need stop using antibiotics for everything and use it only when necessary. When Drugs Stop Working-Norway's Answer: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-6014559.html

> Norwegians are sanguine about their coughs and colds, toughing it out through low-grade infections. > "We don't throw antibiotics at every person with a fever. We tell them to hang on, wait and see, and we give them a Tylenol to feel better," says Haug. I wish more of us would follow this approach and learn to accept being 'sick' for a few days (or even a week) every now and then.

In addition to rtdsc's comment, I have also observed that people in the US are more touchy about just the fact of 'being sick' and treat minor colds like it was TB or something. My girlfriend from here after I got a cold, "Oh, are you okay? Why do you think you got sick? Stay in bed for a while and take some medicine." No, it's just a cold. Why do I think I got sick? People get them when it turns cold out. Doesn't matter much except you sound like you're talking though a cup of tea.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#60

Post by VLM »

swombat wrote: post #47
aluhut wrote: post #33

I grew up in a former East Block country. Back then we had medical centers. If you were sick, you went there and they gave you something. Most of the time the solution was: Antibiotics. Because I was sick quite often, I can say I grew up on Antibiotics. When we moved to West Europe my mother made the mistake of chosing a doctor from our country (so she could uderstand what she says). So I continued to get antibiotics…

I don't know how this is possible after my very hard childhood but I just don't get sick anymore. Sounds like whatever your doctors did worked miracles. No serious illness for 20 years? If this experiment could be repeated at scale, and proved to apply to others, everyone should receive the same antibiotics treatment you had!

Perhaps his parents smoked. Mine did. All kinds of respiratory problems as a kid, mysterious miracle cure at 19 when I moved out.
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