Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 113 posts

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#41

Post by haldujai »

harshreality wrote: post #25
alan_cx wrote: post #23

Why is it that some apocalyptic scientific predictions are accepted, while others gain a culture of denial? Strikes me that one could construct a counter argument against this prediction which is as strong as the arguments, for example, climate change deniers use. Yet, no one has done so. I'm struggling to imagine why. Is there profit for the current big players in solving this issue, where as climate change solution…

How much profit is there in current antibiotics? Only a few of the newer ones are still patented. Aren't the bulk of prescribed antibiotics generics? I don't think it's because of a difference in the profit to be made by solutions (green energy vs antibiotic alternatives), but rather because of a difference in the profit to be made by the status quo (hydrocarbon-based energy companies stand to make huge profits if th…

Actually you're quite right. There aren't any significant profits in the development of new antibiotics (right now) but that is changing as more and more resistance is popping up.

Additionally there are new treatments being investigated such as phage therapy (albeit this more of a revival) heavy metals and bacteriocins (protein based).

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#42

Post by toddmorey »

ktd wrote: post #6

Terrible, sensationalist title. The actual quote from the article is "If we are not careful, we will soon be in a post-antibiotic era," which paints a very different picture.

But you truncated the quote for impact. It ends with: “And for some patients and for some microbes, we are already there.”

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#43

Post by elmuchoprez »

aluhut wrote: post #33

I grew up in a former East Block country. Back then we had medical centers. If you were sick, you went there and they gave you something. Most of the time the solution was: Antibiotics. Because I was sick quite often, I can say I grew up on Antibiotics. When we moved to West Europe my mother made the mistake of chosing a doctor from our country (so she could uderstand what she says). So I continued to get antibiotics…

While I can appreciate your situation, those last two paragraphs read with the same kind of anecdotal logic that lead people to the conclusion that vaccinations do more harm than good.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#44

Post by haldujai »

stephnexus wrote: post #36

Agree that antibiotics need to be withheld from livestock unless they are actually sick. Our conventional food system practices are a disgusting joke. On the innovative side, I wish more research were ongoing with regard to bacteriophages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy This therapy pre-dates antibiotics but is harder to target to the pathogen. Russia has been using phages for decades. Other options inclu…

Actually you're quite mistaken. The reason no one uses phage therapy is because for it to be effective it has to be given in a cocktail, i.e. you're given 20 different phages at a time. The FDA/CDC strongly discourage cocktail usage as it promotes the development of resistance more than antibiotic abuse.

MediHoney is used mainly as a wound dressing to prevent infection, not to treat current infections (maybe infections at the wound site). The answer is not profit as you may believe.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#45

Post by haldujai »

jacquesm wrote: post #30
anon1385 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you speak to farmers or others in the meat industry you will find plenty of strong denial about antibiotics in farming being a risk. You will find all the usual arguments: it's impossible for bacteria in animals to ever affect humans, they use different kinds of antibiotics, we will find newer antibiotics to solve the problem Once And For All etc etc. For the most part the lack of widespread public denial is becau…

> it's impossible for bacteria in animals to ever affect humans Those farmers should read the book 'spillover'. According to some papers 60% of all pathogens has in recent times jumped from some other species to humanity, and depending on how rigidly you define species you can add the other 40% too.

Their logic is that the meat will be cooked killing all bacteria and denaturing and DNA remnants. What spillover discusses is referred to as zoonosis, and that's when the animal is alive (or carries a vector that is).

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#46

Post by Blahah »

haldujai wrote: post #44
stephnexus wrote: post #36

Agree that antibiotics need to be withheld from livestock unless they are actually sick. Our conventional food system practices are a disgusting joke. On the innovative side, I wish more research were ongoing with regard to bacteriophages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy This therapy pre-dates antibiotics but is harder to target to the pathogen. Russia has been using phages for decades. Other options inclu…

Actually you're quite mistaken. The reason no one uses phage therapy is because for it to be effective it has to be given in a cocktail, i.e. you're given 20 different phages at a time. The FDA/CDC strongly discourage cocktail usage as it promotes the development of resistance more than antibiotic abuse. MediHoney is used mainly as a wound dressing to prevent infection, not to treat current infections (maybe infectio…

That's not the only reason no-one uses phage therapy - there's also a strong cultural resistance in the west. I've worked on phage targeting various Salmonella serovars, and while you do require cocktails for the most effective treatment, but phage evolve along with the pathogen. There's no inherent limit on the availability of phage like there is with our current suite of antibiotics.

With extensive sequencing-based environmental monitoring, as we're starting to see in many western countries, we can detect the evolution of new bacterial and phage strains in near real-time and isolate the phage to treat the pathogens. We can keep up with pathogen evolution. There's no equivalent system for generating new antibiotics. I reckon this kind of tech is only a few years away - all the pieces are coming into place.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#47

Post by swombat »

aluhut wrote: post #33

I grew up in a former East Block country. Back then we had medical centers. If you were sick, you went there and they gave you something. Most of the time the solution was: Antibiotics. Because I was sick quite often, I can say I grew up on Antibiotics. When we moved to West Europe my mother made the mistake of chosing a doctor from our country (so she could uderstand what she says). So I continued to get antibiotics…

I don't know how this is possible after my very hard childhood but I just don't get sick anymore.

Sounds like whatever your doctors did worked miracles. No serious illness for 20 years? If this experiment could be repeated at scale, and proved to apply to others, everyone should receive the same antibiotics treatment you had!

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#49

Post by haldujai »

Blahah wrote: post #46
haldujai wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually you're quite mistaken. The reason no one uses phage therapy is because for it to be effective it has to be given in a cocktail, i.e. you're given 20 different phages at a time. The FDA/CDC strongly discourage cocktail usage as it promotes the development of resistance more than antibiotic abuse. MediHoney is used mainly as a wound dressing to prevent infection, not to treat current infections (maybe infectio…

That's not the only reason no-one uses phage therapy - there's also a strong cultural resistance in the west. I've worked on phage targeting various Salmonella serovars, and while you do require cocktails for the most effective treatment, but phage evolve along with the pathogen. There's no inherent limit on the availability of phage like there is with our current suite of antibiotics. With extensive sequencing-based…

No but it's the main reason. If I had a nickel every time someone told me we can do real-time sequencing I'd be rich. You're greatly overestimating our technical capabilities and underestimating the costs and challenges that would be involved. Theoretically we can identify a new phage a week after resistance is detected, factor in all of the other costs and time involved and it's even worse. The major downside of phage therapy is that there is no readily available phage if resistance develops as there is with antibiotics (the manufacturing process for a new phage is not that short). If you find a methicillin resistant infection you can give a tetracycline or cephalosporins.

Additionally, don't forget that phages are not all lytic and not all are effective (i.e. look at C. difficile) and that phages won't affect intracellular pathogens (i.e. Salmonella, to my knowledges phages don't work but please share as you say you have experience with this).

So while phages can be useful (I never said they weren't) their use is limited and has it's own drawbacks.

Re: CDC Threat Report: ‘We Will Soon Be in a Post-Antibiotic Era’

#50

Post by aluhut »

elmuchoprez wrote: post #43
aluhut wrote: post #33

I grew up in a former East Block country. Back then we had medical centers. If you were sick, you went there and they gave you something. Most of the time the solution was: Antibiotics. Because I was sick quite often, I can say I grew up on Antibiotics. When we moved to West Europe my mother made the mistake of chosing a doctor from our country (so she could uderstand what she says). So I continued to get antibiotics…

While I can appreciate your situation, those last two paragraphs read with the same kind of anecdotal logic that lead people to the conclusion that vaccinations do more harm than good.

It wasn't ment that way. The vaccination conspiracy theorists are the opposite evil here. They are even worse.

I didn't want to say that I would not give my kid antibiotics. This is bullshit. But I will change the doctor if his only solution is antibiotics. I had that situation already with my girlfriend. She is ill pretty often. She works in a kindergarden and parents tent to get rid of their sick kids by sending them there. She had to change her doctor because it just did not work out and sometimes the solution is simply to stay home for a few days and drink some warm tea.

There is no easy solution here. You can't say that you refuse all kinds of medication but you have to find out which doctor is really trying to help you out here and this can be only done through experience.

I for myself am just lucky. I can't say how but it works. If I ever get really sick and the 3 days on tea won't help, I will go to the doctor I trust and get some medication to cure it.

Post reply on HN