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Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

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Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#51

Post by scrumper »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #26
salgernon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am reminded of this quote: “This, milord, is my family’s axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine-hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y’…

What you’re describing is also known as Theseus’ Paradox, and has been with us for 2 millennia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

My personal favourite instance of the trope is Trigger's Broom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(Only_Fools_and_Horses)

Thanks for the link to something much, much older.

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#52

Post by [deleted] »

snowwrestler wrote: post #42
blackaspen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do millions of people flock to the Mona Lisa or Shakespeare? I do see TCP/IP as an art form, but it's not one that ever gets examined. It gets used. There's a bit of a difference in my opinion.

Well he mentioned the Principia too...I bet most people who use calculus have never read that.

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#53

Post by snom380 »

Taylorious wrote: post #47
jasonjei wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, his work supports the work of UNIX and Ritchie. He states that tech work on a large scale is often like setting pavement. UNIX APIs are a progression of that. The fact that many can use a computer without understanding the underpinnings of an OS is a testament to Jobs.

Why is it a testament to Jobs? I doubt he wrote even a single line of code any of Apples OSs. Did he design the UIs or did he hire someone and then just approve what THEY worked on and designed? I hate how people talk about Apple and give Jobs all of the credit for what Apple produced. What about all of the talented engineers, designers, etc. who actually did the work? Sure he had final approval and his design taste…

Well he did design the Mac calculator: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Calculator_Constr...

Steve certainly didn't just "approve" designs, he offered a lot of input as well.

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#54

Post by snom380 »

embolism wrote: post #49
Taylorious wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a testament to Jobs? I doubt he wrote even a single line of code any of Apples OSs. Did he design the UIs or did he hire someone and then just approve what THEY worked on and designed? I hate how people talk about Apple and give Jobs all of the credit for what Apple produced. What about all of the talented engineers, designers, etc. who actually did the work? Sure he had final approval and his design taste…

Yeah - every tech company with talented employees produces results that are just as good. Management and CEO talent is irrelevant, as we can all see. Jobs deserves only contempt.

You can just look at Apple design pre and post Steve's return just to see how big an impact having him around had. Suddenly Jony Ive had someone to play ball with.

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#55

Post by hawkharris »

Steve Jobs' sedimentary rock analogy might deflate the egos of some developers. We work so hard on developing innovative hardware and software that will be relevant in the future. On top of that there's a lot of hyped-up business rhetoric about disrupting whole industries and changing the world with our products. Yet, even when we do manage to shake things up, what Jobs said is true: Our innovations will get buried under new innovations, like layers of sediment in a cliffside.

But I think there's something important, albeit humble, about becoming that thin layer of sediment in a rock formation. The layers may not have any obvious utility, yet they tell geologists a vivid, detailed story about changes in a landscape. That story may even help the geologists predict future changes and disruptions.

I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Sure, we may not use the original Apple products, but to technologists with the right knowledge and experience, they offer fascinating, useful insights about the future and past of technology.

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#56

Post by rhizome »

hawkharris wrote: post #55

Steve Jobs' sedimentary rock analogy might deflate the egos of some developers. We work so hard on developing innovative hardware and software that will be relevant in the future. On top of that there's a lot of hyped-up business rhetoric about disrupting whole industries and changing the world with our products. Yet, even when we do manage to shake things up, what Jobs said is true: Our innovations will get buried u…

Just last night on IRC I was commenting on the stinkeye I received at a company once when I suggested their tagging functionality mimic Stack Overflow's. Even though their product was a multiuser version of something that had existed at 1:1 scale for a decade, never did I hear it described in terms of what already existed. Based on more than this one example, I am convinced that there is a beautiful-farts narcissism in startups today where everybody thinks they're doing something new when they're really just making a drag-and-drop Megaupload, in-browser Sublime Text, Flickr-with-animation, or whatever.

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#57

Post by jballanc »

To me, this speaks of the difference between artists and craftsmen. Artists attempt to create the ideal, something that is perfect and that people can stare at for hours just appreciating every nuance. Craftsmen create things to be used, and it is in their use that they derive joy, even if the same said use eventually destroys the creation.

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#58

Post by arh68 »

acqq wrote: post #38
joelrunyon wrote: post #3

This is old. You can pick up the full video here - http://www.siliconvalleyhistorical.org/#!steve-jobs-film/c1x... I did a couple years back. It's like $5 & well worth it

But here's Amazon review: "I was threatened with legal action and personal attacks via email from the president of the Silicon Valley Historical Association over the above review (which is against not only the 1st Amendment, but also Amazon's policies), and then my review was removed. Therefore I am posting this review again (...) In my opinion, if you are looking for a film about Steve Jobs, this is NOT it. In this…

> There is, however, a nearly 20 minute long segment of various random people explaining why they think the Information Age and Silicon Valley is EXACTLY like the Renaissance period, followed immediately by a clip of Jobs saying, "Nah, it's not like the Renaissance AT ALL."

The computer industry kills art and it sounds like Jobs knew it. What perhaps the others saw as incredible works of art (like sculpted marble that will withstand the centuries) were actually just the most disposable consumer goods we've ever known. Computers are about cheap, disposable crap. For some reason, this also means software needs to be cheap and disposable, but that's another point entirely. The only layers of 'sediment' our creations will be found in are in the landfill. The only 'rare geologists' are likely going to be the picked-the-last-straw developer (or the terminally curious) that has to go knee-deep in the sewers of old code and comes upon a neat hack. This might sound real glass-half-empty, but it doesn't bother me. What's wonderful to know is that everyone else thinks we're all Michelangelos!

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#59

Post by arh68 »

jballanc wrote: post #57

To me, this speaks of the difference between artists and craftsmen. Artists attempt to create the ideal, something that is perfect and that people can stare at for hours just appreciating every nuance. Craftsmen create things to be used, and it is in their use that they derive joy, even if the same said use eventually destroys the creation.

But the use doesn't destroy the creations! It's not like they printed off a finite number of Apple IIs and waited for all of their caps to blow 20 years later. They got thrown in the landfill when they were running on all 4 legs.

The song "Jed the Humanoid" (by Grandaddy) captures my attitude pretty well.

Re: Steve Jobs Ponders His Legacy In Never-Before-Seen 1994 Video

#60

Post by dasil003 »

hawkharris wrote: post #55

Steve Jobs' sedimentary rock analogy might deflate the egos of some developers. We work so hard on developing innovative hardware and software that will be relevant in the future. On top of that there's a lot of hyped-up business rhetoric about disrupting whole industries and changing the world with our products. Yet, even when we do manage to shake things up, what Jobs said is true: Our innovations will get buried u…

To stretch the metaphor: I think we're lucky if what we do becomes real sediment that others build upon. Most programming work is throw-away business code that no one will ever build upon and will be whisked away by the wind.

It doesn't matter though, we do what we do for the love (or compulsion) of creation. I'm quite certain Michelangelo loved painting above all else, and that's the necessary but not sufficient fact for him to achieve something like the Sistine Chapel. Who knows how many great painters are completely lost to history?

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