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“Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

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Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#51

Post by rhizome »

sneak wrote: post #28
purplelobster wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. Every little startup and bigcorp think they need the Ninja Rockstar Astronaut Millionaire Cowboy 1% Hacker, while in fact they're just looking for someone to crank out some standard js or ruby for some social networking web app.

Every startup that plans on being successful must have at least one person on the team that is smart and driven far beyond the median. It's usually at least one of the founders. Then you can hire B people and maybe still succeed (but of course your chances are diminished). Most frequently, I startups seeking out these one-percenters due to their own massive organizational ignorance - which, incidentally, makes gettin…

They then want you to spend your time teaching them to be A-players.

10-15 years ago the "smart and driven" person was called a "visionary" in the dotcom world. Check Wired backissues, they probably bought out the entire late-90s inventory of the word.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#52

Post by nikster »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #20
VLM wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which shows the perfect meaninglessness of the netflix slide, the cognitive dissonance of it. "We fire all B performers regardless of effort". Think about that. Pretend you don't know what netflix does. I hope nuclear reactors are run by people like that. Oh that sounds like a good slogan for an open heart surgeon. Secret service agents? No, you say? Hmm how about space shuttle tile installation specialist? I've got…

There's a benefit to making a ridiculous statement like that, though: it makes firing decisions a lot easier. Have you ever worked with that employee--the one that, sigh , they do an OK job, but wow, you have to explain everything to them 700 different ways until you get on the same page. The same mistakes keep popping up over and over. You sit them down and explain what's up. They say they're trying and they're over…

Yes, been there done that. Especially - I think - in coding, there are people who put in negative performance by messing up the things theyre assigned to do so others have to come in later and clean up their bugs. Terrible decision to let somebody go but best to cut your losses early.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#53

Post by rhizome »

bcoates wrote: post #37
VLM wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which shows the perfect meaninglessness of the netflix slide, the cognitive dissonance of it. "We fire all B performers regardless of effort". Think about that. Pretend you don't know what netflix does. I hope nuclear reactors are run by people like that. Oh that sounds like a good slogan for an open heart surgeon. Secret service agents? No, you say? Hmm how about space shuttle tile installation specialist? I've got…

I think you might be reading a little much into the slide. I think it's obvious that the point is you get no credit for effort expended: you either deliver what is expected of you or you don't. Also, I'm not sure what hellish grading system you're used to where "A" means "1% elite". In most contexts, it means "competent": A student at most educational institutions in the US can expect an A if they grasped the class m…

The things you see as obvious are equally "read into" the slide, just from a different perspective.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#54

Post by bhouser »

tekromancr wrote: post #44
rdl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some hourly people who make more than salaries employers ("consultants" vs. "contractors", i.e. people hired for particular skill or experience vs. to fill a role, generally). There are some places where pretty much everyone but the very top management is some kind of hourly-billed contractor or consultant, which seems weird. In practice there are usually client and contracting firm cultural solutions to th…

I am hourly, and I often find myself shaving my hours if I am unhappy with my output, and other times I can't help myself and I end up working for sixty hours and not put down the overtime. I don't think that this is unusual, it's how you keep a job in a down economy.

I've experienced similar, but only when working hourly from home. I guess I feel responsible for distractions in my own house, but when I'm in the office I have no second thoughts about billing for the time where I did my best in the environment provided.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#55

Post by doorhammer »

tekromancr wrote: post #44
rdl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some hourly people who make more than salaries employers ("consultants" vs. "contractors", i.e. people hired for particular skill or experience vs. to fill a role, generally). There are some places where pretty much everyone but the very top management is some kind of hourly-billed contractor or consultant, which seems weird. In practice there are usually client and contracting firm cultural solutions to th…

I am hourly, and I often find myself shaving my hours if I am unhappy with my output, and other times I can't help myself and I end up working for sixty hours and not put down the overtime. I don't think that this is unusual, it's how you keep a job in a down economy.

I ended up working at a call center as a temporary job, and was given a lot of responsibilities during a major transition to another location; they gave me a monthly bonus on top of the hourly pay (I'm a salaried analyst now). The company I work for would have immediately fired me for going either way with hours, and if my boss knew, they'd probably have fired him as well (huge violation of company policy. Not saying that makes you a terrible person or anything. Just relating how it can be complicated.

I also did a few business trips while I was hourly, which started out odd, but really didn't end up being that bad. I was basically filling in for my supervisor and the management structure seemed to think the return value was worth a pretty decent chunk of overtime logged.

The bonus thing was weird, because I was basically half-salaried and half hourly. Anyone else have experience with that? My income was relatively stable as long as I stayed in the 35 - 45 hour range, and even a bit outside of that, but past that I could pretty substantially alter it. I also had a really good relationship with my boss, so like any other job, if I had started working 15 hours a week they would have had a problem. My work quality and production were solid, though, and I felt secure in the position. Interesting period of time.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#56

Post by gyepi »

mseebach wrote: post #41
pekk wrote: post #2

A culture where everyone has to be in the perfect 1%, or where everyone is informing on everyone, or where people are very actively competing for status and territory, is also one where nobody will show vulnerability or speak up or tell the truth, except as it seems strategic to do so.

That's a quite uncharitable reading of the Netflix slide (I assumes that's what you're referring to). Your "A-game" is your best, not the best in the world. Your "B-game", by extension, is something less. The way I read it, is that as long as you're doing the best work you can, it doesn't matter when you work. If you're doing less than your best work, well, you should stop.

> Your "A-game" is your best, not the best in the world....

Hmm, that doesn't jibe with the idea of not rewarding mere effort, which is how I read it as well; we reward results, and "punish" lack of results. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; applicants know what they are getting into and can self select out if they don't feel up to it.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#57

Post by mseebach »

gyepi wrote: post #56
mseebach wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a quite uncharitable reading of the Netflix slide (I assumes that's what you're referring to). Your "A-game" is your best, not the best in the world. Your "B-game", by extension, is something less. The way I read it, is that as long as you're doing the best work you can, it doesn't matter when you work. If you're doing less than your best work, well, you should stop.

> Your "A-game" is your best, not the best in the world.... Hmm, that doesn't jibe with the idea of not rewarding mere effort, which is how I read it as well; we reward results, and "punish" lack of results. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; applicants know what they are getting into and can self select out if they don't feel up to it.

Well, your best has to be good enough to get good results. I just did not get the vibe "you must be a top 1% astronaut rockstar" from that slide that the GP seemed to.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#58

Post by tsmith »

purplelobster wrote: post #11
VLM wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which shows the perfect meaninglessness of the netflix slide, the cognitive dissonance of it. "We fire all B performers regardless of effort". Think about that. Pretend you don't know what netflix does. I hope nuclear reactors are run by people like that. Oh that sounds like a good slogan for an open heart surgeon. Secret service agents? No, you say? Hmm how about space shuttle tile installation specialist? I've got…

Couldn't agree more. Every little startup and bigcorp think they need the Ninja Rockstar Astronaut Millionaire Cowboy 1% Hacker, while in fact they're just looking for someone to crank out some standard js or ruby for some social networking web app.

Think about it this way: no matter how low you put the dividing line between A-level and B-level performers, you will always have people that fall below the line.

So, set your line appropriately, but fire people below the line, no matter how "hard" they work / how much time they spend "ass-in-chair".

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#59

Post by nostrademons »

VLM wrote: post #24
aaronblohowiak wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is you need I be an A performer for your role. This could also be summarized as avoid the Peter principle.

That's where you run into the bell curve problem where you demand 5% of the area under the curve be hired, yet claim that magically they all came from the 1% right edge. In an industry where everyone claims to do the same thing. That's not going to work mathematically. Other ways to handle it other than massive underemployment are grade inflation and redefining an "A" into a participation trophy or redefine "A" perfo…

Is the distribution of ability levels really a bell curve? I would expect it to be roughly trimodal, with a large group at "generally competent", a small but sizable group at "incompetent and painful to work with", and another small group at "creative innovator that raises the productivity of everyone around them".

I'd also expect that everybody wants to think of themselves as being in the last group, and so the companies all advertise for that. But realistically, very few people actually want to hire creative innovators and even fewer still will listen to them once they do, so companies are really gunning for that middle group. It's quite possible to parcel out that middle group into 5% chunks.

Re: “Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far”

#60

Post by grappler »

eykanal wrote: post #3

What a perfect example of the benefits of open communication. Sarah was a skilled enough boss to make Zach feel comfortable challenging her. Zach was an engaged enough employee to actually discuss something that was bothering him. There are so many ways that this could not have happened. This makes me really want to work with that team.

That reminds me of a stupid thing I said once.

At a sprint retrospective, I said something to the effect of “I realize that I could stand to get faster at coding and using the editor shortcuts”.

I was fired the next day. Reason given: coding skill.

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