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Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

computerworld.com

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Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#51

Post by chipsy »

jacques_chester wrote: post #28

I suspect it'll be like the dotcom bubble: zillions of students signing up because they heard you can get rich this way (and by happy coincidence you don't need the high scores needed to get into law or medicine). Eventually there's a popping noise and such folk leave the industry for sunnier pastures. The rest of us go back to being wildly unpopular and bickering amongst ourselves about the finer points of ... well,…

I think it is definitely the bubble scenario again, but there are some demographic differences that could change our expectations for the results.

The most important thing to recognize is that entry-level skill requirements for programming will always trend down, not up, as the tooling and UI for common industry tasks becomes incrementally easier. C was easier than assembly, and Java was easier than C, and JS was easier than Java...whatever comes after JS must be easier than JS.

Lowering the costs of entry means that capital markets have a lower impact on the business of tech, as more things will get done without any money changing hands - but the need for customization is likely to increase simultaneously, as niches will become cost-effective targets for new software.

In effect, the tech market will increasingly be folded into the rest of the economy. Or "software eats the world."

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#52

Post by jfarmer »

RougeFemme wrote: post #44
purplelobster wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this at all. I need my understanding of calculus, trig, discrete mathematics, probability/stats and especially linear algebra. Then again I do computer vision, but even building web apps (that do something non-trivial) in my spare time I end up using that knowledge. Basically, build trivial stuff (simple UIs and a RoR backend?) and you probably don't need math. For anything else, you'll be stuck without i…

I'm not a programmer but. . .unless you're coding an explicitly math-intensive application, aren't there tools that could do any math that's required? Of course, the tool would have to come from a trusted source.

If you don't know the math, how do you see what math applies?

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#53

Post by barry-cotter »

wissler wrote: post #49
invalidOrTaken wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a question: Imagine this new bubble has just popped, 5 or 50 years from now. What do people looking to both learn something of substance and be highly compensated for it study? Biotech? Engineering? Materials science?

Ideally look at the kinds of problems that are difficult and important and that we have a long way to go in, such as nanotech, biotech, and materials science. Compensation ought to be more or less irrelevant, you just want to do something worthwhile and get paid enough that you can keep doing it.

Bzzt. Idealism and an accompanying implicit ideology detected. Naked apes strive after status, prestige, respect, all of which are similar enough and all of which make money easier to get.

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#54

Post by barry-cotter »

ams6110 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally, as a part-time sysadmin at a university I've seen more than a few examples of "students" in a computer science Master's degree program who are obviously in it for the perceived job opportunities. But they don't seem to actually care about the subject. They copy and paste code from google search results and if it doesn't work they are helpless. They don't make any effort to understand what is happening or…

I don't understand the thinking in getting into a career field that you have no intrinsic interest in.

Think of all the people, more or less all of them driven, successful and highly intelligent who go into finance each year. How many of them are in it for pecuniary reasons? Most people get a job as a means of getting money, are to greater or lesser degrees alienated from their labour and are not achieving peak actualisation or anything close to it in their work. Those who do are living the dream and if you don't know anyone who does so it hardly seems a plausible goal, does it?

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#55

Post by sn0v »

chipsy wrote: post #51
jacques_chester wrote: post #28

I suspect it'll be like the dotcom bubble: zillions of students signing up because they heard you can get rich this way (and by happy coincidence you don't need the high scores needed to get into law or medicine). Eventually there's a popping noise and such folk leave the industry for sunnier pastures. The rest of us go back to being wildly unpopular and bickering amongst ourselves about the finer points of ... well,…

I think it is definitely the bubble scenario again, but there are some demographic differences that could change our expectations for the results. The most important thing to recognize is that entry-level skill requirements for programming will always trend down, not up, as the tooling and UI for common industry tasks becomes incrementally easier. C was easier than assembly, and Java was easier than C, and JS was eas…

While it may be the bubble scenario all over again, it remains to be seen if a pop will really create the sort of disastrous effects as the dotcom bust, or if a majority of the one hit app-dev studios will get by on the sheer popularity of smartphones and tablets without having to resort to mass layoffs.

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#56

Post by purplelobster »

gamegoblin wrote: post #32
purplelobster wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this at all. I need my understanding of calculus, trig, discrete mathematics, probability/stats and especially linear algebra. Then again I do computer vision, but even building web apps (that do something non-trivial) in my spare time I end up using that knowledge. Basically, build trivial stuff (simple UIs and a RoR backend?) and you probably don't need math. For anything else, you'll be stuck without i…

Being someone who cherishes the ability to do complex maths without a calculator, and having friends who rely on Wolfram, I think that the difference is that when you know the mathematics, you see the mathematics. What you see as a trivial problem that is simply a solution to a homogenous second order linear differential equation, your friend who doesn't know the mathematics sees as an entirely different problem. I'm…

I'm not even talking very advanced stuff. I wouldn't say my math is particularly good. I've forgotten most of the specifics of what was taught in those classes. I totally use Wolfram Alpha when I can, I don't do math for the thrill of doing it, but because I have a problem and I'm trying to find a solution. I think it's more important to have the ability to break down a problem mathematically, and then read up on the parts you need than to remember everything by rote. The problem is that if you've never taken any advanced math, it's very difficult to read up on it and knowing where to start.

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#57

Post by purplelobster »

RougeFemme wrote: post #44
purplelobster wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this at all. I need my understanding of calculus, trig, discrete mathematics, probability/stats and especially linear algebra. Then again I do computer vision, but even building web apps (that do something non-trivial) in my spare time I end up using that knowledge. Basically, build trivial stuff (simple UIs and a RoR backend?) and you probably don't need math. For anything else, you'll be stuck without i…

I'm not a programmer but. . .unless you're coding an explicitly math-intensive application, aren't there tools that could do any math that's required? Of course, the tool would have to come from a trusted source.

Like I said, might not be a problem for a simple web app, but have you ever tried writing a game? For even the simplest game I end up using a lot of (fairly simple) math, linear algebra and some physics. If you start doing stuff in 3D, you'll need even more.

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#58

Post by drucken »

"Fashions" like these are disasterous.

Many of those students do not realise that a straight mathematics degree has been proven for many decades to be far more valuable, flexible in a larger variety of careers, and even significantly more enjoyable (across the breadth of a career) until it is far too late.

The only silver lining is that the US university system is remarkably flexible and so being able to change major(s) reduces the risks somewhat.

Re: Computer science enrollments soared 30% last year

#59

Post by wissler »

barry-cotter wrote: post #53
wissler wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally look at the kinds of problems that are difficult and important and that we have a long way to go in, such as nanotech, biotech, and materials science. Compensation ought to be more or less irrelevant, you just want to do something worthwhile and get paid enough that you can keep doing it.

Bzzt. Idealism and an accompanying implicit ideology detected. Naked apes strive after status, prestige, respect, all of which are similar enough and all of which make money easier to get.

Speak for yourself, cynic.
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