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Let's black bar HN

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Re: Let's black bar HN

#51

Post by shock »

DanBC wrote: post #40
thomasz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The news and eulogies are all over the net, so I don't see how denying him a black bar would prevent possible copycat suicides. The stigmatization against suicides as something dishonorable has to end. He was a great hacker and distinguished activist, and through I don't know him personally, I'm pretty sure he was a great guy overall. He deserves a black bar. He died from depression. Others die from other diseases, c…

We have to be careful with the way we talk about people who died by suicide. We have to be careful because copycat suicide is real, and we do not want to cause it. Yes, other sites are being irresponsible with their reportage. HN is not other sites. This has nothing to do with continuing the stigma against suicide or suicidal thinking.

Has it been established that black barring HN would cause copycat suicides? Maybe the amount of attention Aaron is getting on HN (top stories all about him) is sufficient cause for copycat suicides. Should we all stop upvoting stories for fear that it might cause copycat suicides? Should we stop discussing the subject altogether? I think discussing it is very healthy for the community since we might be able to draw conclusions about what we could do better to help those in the same boat.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#52

Post by pbateman »

Tichy wrote: post #43

I must admit I find this and other variations of "let's use the death of a person to force other people to do things" very offensive. Black out your own web site. Mourning is a personal thing. If PG decides he wants to black bar HN, he will do it. If not, he won't. What's it to you?

Calling a gentle suggestion from the HN community to make a minor change to mourn one of our members "very offensive" is a bizarre overreaction.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#53

Post by Tichy »

pbateman wrote: post #52
Tichy wrote: post #43

I must admit I find this and other variations of "let's use the death of a person to force other people to do things" very offensive. Black out your own web site. Mourning is a personal thing. If PG decides he wants to black bar HN, he will do it. If not, he won't. What's it to you?

Calling a gentle suggestion from the HN community to make a minor change to mourn one of our members "very offensive" is a bizarre overreaction.

Sure, as long as it's gentle. I just don't want a discussion on why it is wrong to not make the bar black or what not. And as I said, I see this in a long tradition of making people do stuff because somebody died, which I don't like. It's all peachy as long as people comply, but if they don't, suddenly they might be labeled as cold hearted, sociopathic or whatever. Why not just let it be an individual thing?

As somebody else pointed out, PG is probably still asleep and will probably black the bar anyway. I don't think he needs a reminder. Also, I know nothing about his personal feelings towards Aaron.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#54

Post by corresation »

homosaur wrote: post #48
corresation wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty intelligent bunch so I hope there is rationale in discussing it honestly, but do you really think so? What had Aaron done lately? I only raise the question because you say the opposite, and in such situations the absolutely worst thing the community can do is canonize someone, exaggerating their accomplishments and raising their words above actual merit (the front-page is full of his old entries now.…

Well there's some nice 10 cent psychology, but I'd have to guess that the stress of dealing with government persecution for the last few years probably had a strong effect on his mental state. However, I sure as hell don't know that and you don't either. I see most of what you said as judgemental pop psych bullshit, but maybe I'm misinterpreting your intention so I don't want to turn this into a flame. It doesn't tak…

How is my response in any way not compassionate? Is this the period where we all go under the cloud of delusion to show "compassion"? HN is FAR above that: this is not people.com.

Judgmental pop psychology? Hardly.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#55

Post by hnriot »

Tichy wrote: post #43

I must admit I find this and other variations of "let's use the death of a person to force other people to do things" very offensive. Black out your own web site. Mourning is a personal thing. If PG decides he wants to black bar HN, he will do it. If not, he won't. What's it to you?

I actually find this "making it about you" self absorbed type of comment pretty sad. Get over yourself - nobody cares what you find offensive.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#56

Post by corresation »

danso wrote: post #50
corresation wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty intelligent bunch so I hope there is rationale in discussing it honestly, but do you really think so? What had Aaron done lately? I only raise the question because you say the opposite, and in such situations the absolutely worst thing the community can do is canonize someone, exaggerating their accomplishments and raising their words above actual merit (the front-page is full of his old entries now.…

> I suspect that Aaron's curse -- the thing that made a very privileged Western existence "too painful" as others have said -- is that he peaked so early. He did the right things at the right times with the right people, and while he was clearly a very bright individual, I think that ended up becoming baggage that dragged him down, every future effort unlikely to ever shine as bright. Yes, that and the impending worr…

That doesn't refute my point at all.

Aaron intentionally did something that would draw him a lot of attention to him, and then fanned the fires again and again. It exactly loops back to what I said.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#57

Post by pbateman »

Tichy wrote: post #53
pbateman wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling a gentle suggestion from the HN community to make a minor change to mourn one of our members "very offensive" is a bizarre overreaction.

Sure, as long as it's gentle. I just don't want a discussion on why it is wrong to not make the bar black or what not. And as I said, I see this in a long tradition of making people do stuff because somebody died, which I don't like. It's all peachy as long as people comply, but if they don't, suddenly they might be labeled as cold hearted, sociopathic or whatever. Why not just let it be an individual thing? As someb…

1) It pretty obviously is gentle. In the most extreme scenario pg is bullied into briefly making a minor change to the CSS.

2) HN is a community site, which exists and thrives largely because of the community. I can't see anything wrong with members of said community making suggestions on occasion, particularly on occasions like this.

3) People are far too quick to take offence these days, particularly on the internet. IMHO the world would be a better place if these people were instructed to get over it rather than pandered to.

4) Finally PG is free to say no and I for one will not judge him ill for it.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#58

Post by kghose »

Tichy wrote: post #53
pbateman wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling a gentle suggestion from the HN community to make a minor change to mourn one of our members "very offensive" is a bizarre overreaction.

Sure, as long as it's gentle. I just don't want a discussion on why it is wrong to not make the bar black or what not. And as I said, I see this in a long tradition of making people do stuff because somebody died, which I don't like. It's all peachy as long as people comply, but if they don't, suddenly they might be labeled as cold hearted, sociopathic or whatever. Why not just let it be an individual thing? As someb…

I upvoted you because I think it is wrong to downvote something you don't agree with but which is otherwise a) Not spam b) Not offensive c) Not useless

Re: Let's black bar HN

#59

Post by Tichy »

hnriot wrote: post #55
Tichy wrote: post #43

I must admit I find this and other variations of "let's use the death of a person to force other people to do things" very offensive. Black out your own web site. Mourning is a personal thing. If PG decides he wants to black bar HN, he will do it. If not, he won't. What's it to you?

I actually find this "making it about you" self absorbed type of comment pretty sad. Get over yourself - nobody cares what you find offensive.

So it's the rest of HN against me now? Anyway, I'm off, I said my opinion and that's it. It's not a thing to rationally argue about at this point in time.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#60

Post by Tichy »

pbateman wrote: post #57
Tichy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, as long as it's gentle. I just don't want a discussion on why it is wrong to not make the bar black or what not. And as I said, I see this in a long tradition of making people do stuff because somebody died, which I don't like. It's all peachy as long as people comply, but if they don't, suddenly they might be labeled as cold hearted, sociopathic or whatever. Why not just let it be an individual thing? As someb…

1) It pretty obviously is gentle. In the most extreme scenario pg is bullied into briefly making a minor change to the CSS. 2) HN is a community site, which exists and thrives largely because of the community. I can't see anything wrong with members of said community making suggestions on occasion, particularly on occasions like this. 3) People are far too quick to take offence these days, particularly on the interne…

I didn't take offense in the sense of "if you do this I'll find you and beat you up". It was just my lack of English skills. What I mean is I don't like it. Obviously nobody will notice if I join in demonstrative mourning or not over the internet, so no real harm is done. I also don't mind a black bar on HN - I find this event very sad myself.
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