Let's black bar HN • Hacker News Board

Re: Let's black bar HN

#31

Post by corresation » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:00 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #4

Any relative lack of notability vs. the others HN has black-barred was because he died so young. Think of all the things he likely would have done over the next 60 years if he slowed down even 50%.

This is a pretty intelligent bunch so I hope there is rationale in discussing it honestly, but do you really think so? What had Aaron done lately?

I only raise the question because you say the opposite, and in such situations the absolutely worst thing the community can do is canonize someone, exaggerating their accomplishments and raising their words above actual merit (the front-page is full of his old entries now. Why?)

I suspect that Aaron's curse -- the thing that made a very privileged Western existence "too painful" as others have said -- is that he peaked so early. He did the right things at the right times with the right people, and while he was clearly a very bright individual, I think that ended up becoming baggage that dragged him down, every future effort unlikely to ever shine as bright.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#32

Post by shock » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:01 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #27

shock wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Aaron's death any less regrettable because it was a suicide rather than a car accident? I don't think so. The black bar signifies sadness for the loss of someone, it's not a political statement. I, for one, would like HN to be black barred for Aaron simply because the world is a worse place without him in it.

[deleted]

In that vain of thought, one could argue that many actions should not be done because of possible, unintended, consequences. Perhaps some software should not be written? Perhaps even code you wrote will have unintended consequences? Where does this line of thought stop?

Re: Let's black bar HN

#33

Post by jbrooksuk » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:02 PM UTC

lispython wrote: post #11

ashraful wrote: post #3

I'm sure the black bar isn't there because PG happens to be asleep. Its unfortunate that he'll wake up to such bad news.

You don't have to wait PG to wake up, I already set my "topcolor" to black.

I believe you can only do that if you have a certain karma level. I for one, don't :(

Re: Let's black bar HN

#34

Post by sneak » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:02 PM UTC

baritalia wrote: post #13

I, for one, don't care. It was his personal decision to end it this way. Also I'd like to know how many of you will think of his 'legacy' on a daily basis in 6 months time.

A link I read today that I followed from Aaron's own writings:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_inconsistency

Just because it was his own personal decision while depressed doesn't mean it was the right thing to happen. I don't believe in removing people's personal agency but don't dismiss something (the irreversible decisions made under vast psychological duress) that you don't understand as a given.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#35

Post by shock » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:03 PM UTC

thomasz wrote: post #29

[deleted] wrote: post #23

[deleted]

The news and eulogies are all over the net, so I don't see how denying him a black bar would prevent possible copycat suicides. The stigmatization against suicides as something dishonorable has to end. He was a great hacker and distinguished activist, and through I don't know him personally, I'm pretty sure he was a great guy overall. He deserves a black bar. He died from depression. Others die from other diseases, c…

> The stigmatization against suicides as something dishonorable has to end.

I agree completely. Someone who has hope does not commit suicide, black bar or not. Perhaps we, as a society, should work towards a world that will not leave anyone without hope.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#36

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:05 PM UTC

shock wrote: post #32

[deleted] wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

In that vain of thought, one could argue that many actions should not be done because of possible, unintended, consequences. Perhaps some software should not be written? Perhaps even code you wrote will have unintended consequences? Where does this line of thought stop?

[deleted]

Re: Let's black bar HN

#37

Post by artmageddon » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:09 PM UTC

kami8845 wrote: post #22

neilk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that's not the most amazing part. They didn't want to let him onto the RDF working group, so Aaron hacked the W3C process at the age of 14. > The rules said that while they could reject any requests to join from an individual, if an organization that was an official member of the W3C asked to put someone on the working group, they couldn't say no. So I looked down the list of W3C member organizations, found…

meh. That's just circumventing bureaucracy. Actually having the technical chops to be involved in such a notable standards process is far more impressive. Especially at 14.

While I agree, most teens who are rebellious do things like stay out way too late or get involved with that bad person that their parents warned them about, rather than not taking "no" for an answer and going on to create great things. It's still pretty commendable.

Re: Let's black bar HN

#38

Post by batgaijin » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

shock wrote: post #35

thomasz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The news and eulogies are all over the net, so I don't see how denying him a black bar would prevent possible copycat suicides. The stigmatization against suicides as something dishonorable has to end. He was a great hacker and distinguished activist, and through I don't know him personally, I'm pretty sure he was a great guy overall. He deserves a black bar. He died from depression. Others die from other diseases, c…

> The stigmatization against suicides as something dishonorable has to end. I agree completely. Someone who has hope does not commit suicide, black bar or not. Perhaps we, as a society, should work towards a world that will not leave anyone without hope.

I don't think it's dishonorable at all. He obviously was dealing with very difficult problems and I cannot judge his actions.

However, there is evidence that copycat suicides are a real phenomenon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide

Re: Let's black bar HN

#39

Post by Pitarou » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:57 PM UTC

baritalia wrote: post #13

I, for one, don't care. It was his personal decision to end it this way. Also I'd like to know how many of you will think of his 'legacy' on a daily basis in 6 months time.

> It was his personal decision to end it this way.

I'm not one for flaming people and calling them a dumbass, but I can't let this one go. Your attitude shows you don't know shit about what really goes on when people kill themselves.

It's most likely that Swartz killed himself because he was severely depressed. You can't really call a depression-induced-suicide a decision, because severe depression robs people of their ability to make decisions. It massively distorts perceptions, and literally shuts down the parts of the brain involved in decision making. If Swartz had survived and recovered, I'm pretty sure he'd have told you himself that he wasn't in his right mind at the time.

> And I'd like to know how many of you will think of his 'legacy' on a daily basis in 6 months time.

So what? We show our sorrow now because that is when we feel the loss the most keenly. This is the normal human response. Are you any different?

Re: Let's black bar HN

#40

Post by DanBC » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

thomasz wrote: post #29

[deleted] wrote: post #23

[deleted]

The news and eulogies are all over the net, so I don't see how denying him a black bar would prevent possible copycat suicides. The stigmatization against suicides as something dishonorable has to end. He was a great hacker and distinguished activist, and through I don't know him personally, I'm pretty sure he was a great guy overall. He deserves a black bar. He died from depression. Others die from other diseases, c…

We have to be careful with the way we talk about people who died by suicide.

We have to be careful because copycat suicide is real, and we do not want to cause it. Yes, other sites are being irresponsible with their reportage. HN is not other sites.

This has nothing to do with continuing the stigma against suicide or suicidal thinking.