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Pnpm 12.0

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Re: Pnpm 12.0

#51

Post by zarzavat »

serbuvlad wrote: post #31
zarzavat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought 'how bad can it be?', yet only three paragraphs in "a specifier now names a repository rather than choosing a transport" If you're going to serve us slop then at least serve us good slop, give it a pass through GPT 5.6 to clean up the English.

I remember the most interesting things to do with 3.5 Turbo was to ask it to rewrite paragraphs in different styles. Why can modern LLMs basically not do that anymore? They each have their own very particular writing style? It it all just beaten out of them in post training?

The objective of RL changed circa 2024.

The 3.5-4o era models were trained by RLHF primarily to write in a way that's pleasing to humans.

Starting with o1 the focus switched to reasoning, coding and benchmarks. If you remember when GPT-5 came out it introduced a new "colder" writing style (which was partly intentional) which made a certain subsection of Reddit Very Upset that Sam Altman had killed their AI boyfriends and they forced him to reinstate the warmer 4o.

The artificial default voice of modern models is optimized for reasoning efficiency rather than understandability. Unfortunately the artificialness has a tendency to leak out into the output tokens because reasoning tokens and output tokens are all still just tokens. You can prompt recent models to write in a more understandable style and they do a fairly good job of it, but it's not the default anymore, which means you will have to keep re-prompting it.

I don't think it's an unfixable problem, Anthropic in particular are just not very motivated to fix it because Claude is much less popular for chat than ChatGPT is.

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#52

Post by fwlr »

codeflo wrote: post #48
fwlr wrote: post #16

Had to check the calendar to be sure it wasn’t somehow April 1st. No, it’s August. Huh. I don’t see how it’s possible that the pnpm maintainers are unaware of the bun AI-rewrite-to-rust saga… so I’m baffled, befuddled, and overall at a loss to make sense of this decision.

> unaware of the bun AI-rewrite-to-rust saga I seem to be mostly unaware, at least, it's not self-explanatory to me why a Rust rewrite would be that baffling. What's the verdict on the Bun rewrite, and how does that relate to pnpm's decision? Also, wasn't Bun switching from Zig to Rust instead of from TypeScript to Rust like pnpm? I get the impression that many web infrastructure projects have been switching to more…

I expect the pnpm maintainers to be familiar with it because bun is one of the other three or four major JavaScript package managers. To put it another way, if you gathered up the 100 people in the world working on the most similar problems to pnpm’s own work, like 15 or 20 of them would be working on bun.

I believe the objective verdict on the rewrite is “actually, everything went better than expected”, but it was and seemingly still is quite controversial and engendered a fair bit of bad blood, which I would have thought would be undesirable or demotivating to maintainers.

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#53

Post by shikck200 »

apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #39
1matin wrote: post #15

Whenever you see a lot of long dashes (—) in a writing, there's a high chance Claude has written it.

Perhaps – but it's a useful grammatical construct in everyday use, handy for structuring sentences. And with the prevalence of AI, it rubs off on the smelly humans, who also find it useful and use it more as a result. (I used an en dash here instead of an em one – also valid, easier to type, and shorter).

Nah. I NEVER say the dash pre-AI, at least in commoners writings. Maybe in some books etc. The dash you read today is 99.9% AI generated.

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#55

Post by fatata123 »

winterqt wrote: post #6
mmmeff wrote: post #2

Am I the only one that hates the decision to no longer support corepack?

Is "pnpm installs the other package managers" what you're talking about, or something else? That doesn't quite read like removing corepack support to me, though I might be missing something obvious.

[dead]

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#56

Post by fatata123 »

IanCal wrote: post #33
zarzavat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought 'how bad can it be?', yet only three paragraphs in "a specifier now names a repository rather than choosing a transport" If you're going to serve us slop then at least serve us good slop, give it a pass through GPT 5.6 to clean up the English.

What’s the problem with that? Seems to make sense to me with the example and it’s important to point out. I’d expect an llm to explain in more detail to be honest.

[dead]

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#57

Post by surgical_fire »

shikck200 wrote: post #53
apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps – but it's a useful grammatical construct in everyday use, handy for structuring sentences. And with the prevalence of AI, it rubs off on the smelly humans, who also find it useful and use it more as a result. (I used an en dash here instead of an em one – also valid, easier to type, and shorter).

Nah. I NEVER say the dash pre-AI, at least in commoners writings. Maybe in some books etc. The dash you read today is 99.9% AI generated.

On the rare occasions I used Word to write things in the past, it would replace dashes with em-dash.

I normally use dashes when writing, never bothered myself with writing an em-dash properly otherwise.

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#58

Post by serbuvlad »

zarzavat wrote: post #51
serbuvlad wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the most interesting things to do with 3.5 Turbo was to ask it to rewrite paragraphs in different styles. Why can modern LLMs basically not do that anymore? They each have their own very particular writing style? It it all just beaten out of them in post training?

The objective of RL changed circa 2024. The 3.5-4o era models were trained by RLHF primarily to write in a way that's pleasing to humans. Starting with o1 the focus switched to reasoning, coding and benchmarks. If you remember when GPT-5 came out it introduced a new "colder" writing style (which was partly intentional) which made a certain subsection of Reddit Very Upset that Sam Altman had killed their AI boyfriends…

You can certainly nudge it directionally, but it has its own style. And verbal tics etc.

So it simply cannot keep documentation or a codebase in the same style, and it cannot write in .

With 3.5 Turbo I used to give it bulleted information and paragraphs of what I wanted it to sound like and it'd replicate that style, then I'd edit the factual details it got wrong.

Now the situation has completely reversed! It can extract the data itself, but I have to write the stuff by hand. Humorously, it will do bulletpoints for me, and I write the thing.

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#59

Post by catlifeonmars »

norman784 wrote: post #19

I got to the conclusion that boring is good enough, for me NPM is the best tool, is not that fast, but the installation speed is not that bad, considering how many times I need to run from scratch, the difference does not matter, it is stable and it's the default Node package manager, so I don't need to bother to install in CI any other tool, etc. My experience for long living projects is to stick with the defaults,…

Npm likes to run package lifecycle scripts of your dependencies by default. You have to explicitly opt out of this.

It’s probably the worst package manager out of npm, pnpm, yarn, and bun.

Re: Pnpm 12.0

#60

Post by ofrzeta »

shikck200 wrote: post #53
apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps – but it's a useful grammatical construct in everyday use, handy for structuring sentences. And with the prevalence of AI, it rubs off on the smelly humans, who also find it useful and use it more as a result. (I used an en dash here instead of an em one – also valid, easier to type, and shorter).

Nah. I NEVER say the dash pre-AI, at least in commoners writings. Maybe in some books etc. The dash you read today is 99.9% AI generated.

Where do you think the LLMs got the emdash from? When I worked as a magazine editor we took good care to discern ndash and emdash in printing. In Germany it is a Bindestrich (which links words, hence "bind") and Gedankenstrich (this is where you have a pause in thinking and continue the sentence afterwards).
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