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National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

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51–60 of 78 posts

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#51

I hope there's a plan for local production in the US with all the banning of stuff right, left and center. Soon they'll ban Colombian coffee for being too good and making people want more of it. Or who knows whatever else.

No plan would be a better alternative to than the plan the current craptocracy would come up with

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#52
post #42

I see a funny pattern here. England created the Industrial Revolution but barely has any manufacturing these days. The U.S. created several industries (mass car manufacturing, electronics, clothing, etc) but today China produces more than them. They had more than half the worlds' GDP in 1944, they have less than 16% today. They're slowly following England's path.

China has 4x the population of the US, so it's not exactly odd that they would produce more than the US.

[deleted]

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#53
post #8

The irony is this will harm US manufacturing, not help it. Manufacturing is the sector that most depends on robotics. Companies will now have to sue the administration so they can continue operations without this new regulatory hindrance. I thought this president was supposed to eliminate regulations, not impose newer and stupider ones.

It will harm it even more by not subjecting it to competition, so it becomes bloated and uncompetitive like the US car and shipbuilding industries.

Oh, Intel is way ahead of the curve there, friend.

See: broken cablemodem chipsets, poor performing cellular modems, multiple generations of desktop ethernet adapters that don't work properly, uncompetitive processors in all but some very specific markets, CPUs that literally fry themselves to death because they couldn't keep up with AMD's advances so the just just kept cranking the voltage and clock speeds...Intel has been a bucket of Fail for a decade and a half.

And now the US government owns a not-too-shabby chunk of said Winning company thanks to a Very Stable Genius...

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#54
post #27

i got a better solution. make open firmware and user flashing mandatory. if anyone can inspect the code for backdoors and replace it with brand new software then any security issues go out the window. should apply to domestic products too for good measure.

yea but they don't wanna do that

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#56
post #10

This makes me wonder if we've ever had any evidence that "onshore manufacturing" prevents or even lessens foreign backdoors or security vulnerabilities. Honestly, to me it seems like onshore manufacturers are generally far more clueless than they have any right to be, so it's highly unlikely that they could both write materially better code and act as any meaningful barrier to internal compromise.

"foreign backdoors" and "security vulnerabilities". Both are an worn-out excuse, not some real concern. Gaslighting as a policy.

I'm sure most people who've ever said it were not talking about actual cases, only decoy reasons to get people worried about it and justify actions about it. But both things do exist: foreign backdoors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8WuXDXfcI) and security vulnerabilities (too many router, smart TV, streaming box etc. botnets to count). Not to mention the backdoors and security vulnerabilities that aren't foreign (e.g. Tesla vehicles).

But I think both such things talked about in this announcement are complete bullshit, yes

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#57
post #36

Why doesn't the U.S. simply ban all Chinese products that have an internet-connected computer in them? That would solve almost all security problems in one strike and force Chinese manufacturers to communicate via Bluetooth and update software through USB sticks or memory cards. The apps communicating with said devices through Bluetooth obviously can't connect to the internet either otherwise there'd still be an aven…

Removing an internet connection doesn't really solve much when you're talking about autonomous AI-driven robots with vision and hearing. It's a whole different category to toys, refrigerators, etc. My refrigerator isn't going to suddenly pick up a weapon and start attacking things on command. Nor does it have an easy way to receive instructions through side channels. I'm not saying I agree with Trump's policy - but r…

You have to realize that in a war China will use everything they can against us, including power converters (force a blackout), cars (drive-by-wire car will drive into a tree to kill a high ranking official), routers (disconnect the internet to make command and control difficult for our military). And a zillion other things.

A refrigerator could be forced to overheat and burn you house down killing you and your family. It may sound far fetched but if they believe it will help their cause they won't hesitate one second.

This issue needs to be solved once and for all NOW. Not piecemeal.

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#58

This makes me wonder if we've ever had any evidence that "onshore manufacturing" prevents or even lessens foreign backdoors or security vulnerabilities. Honestly, to me it seems like onshore manufacturers are generally far more clueless than they have any right to be, so it's highly unlikely that they could both write materially better code and act as any meaningful barrier to internal compromise.

Apple is a case in point. It designs and engineers everything and stringently checks that its Chinese ODMs aren't quietly swapping in cheaper inferior parts or alter its software. I therefore assume Apple products are safe even though they're manufactured in China.

But the fact is that most Western manufacturers are too lazy to develop things themselves and merely slap their label on a Chinese designed and manufactured product. This means that the Chinese could slip in anything in the hard/software which creates a huge security liability.

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#59

Ah, the newly popular "let's make the policy unusually broad and treat all foreign production as presumptively dangerous, regardless of country, manufacturer or security practices, this way we're more transparent about prioritizing a bribe rather than our stated concerns". > Advanced robotic devices are inherently networked systems which creates broad attack surfaces and leaves them vulnerable to data exfiltration, r…

>Good thing this isn't a concern in ones produced locally.

It's not difficult to understand the folly of sharing data and control with your biggest adversary. It's so basic, but people chronically keep tripping on it, intentionally or not.

This isn't even something new either, it comes from the cold war where the KGB was excellent at espionage particularly because of their smart leverage of regular people with access to the right things. China isn't dumb either, and they're not sleeping on their treasure trove of Americans data.

So sorry you aren't going to get blackmailed instead of shown Toyota ads, but it's a pretty smart move that most with a geopolitical IQ above room temperature can easily grasp.

Re: National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]

#60

Amazingly ironic that the administration most deeply in bed to the finance sector's bidding is now identifying the result of the finance sector's 50 year push to offshore everything a problem for National security

I remember a big push by business journals back in the 2000s with claims that "executives who offshore work get 18% greater bonuses than executives who don't".

Would love to see that report if you have a link
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