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Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

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Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I'd rather they just lower our taxes and quit squandering our money on these programs that never work. Would you support cutting military spending? It's a lot higher than other countries.

> It's a lot higher than other countries.

That's because the US also defends the free world.

Besides, not spending enough on the military can get very, very expensive.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#52
post #34

It works in China as there absolute experts Work in government , whereas in Europe government employees are typically not competitive in free market

You do see this working in many places. Singapore is probably the best example with an explicit scholar programme and competitive pay in much of the upper rungs of the government. This comes with its own problem culturally but does result in very well thought through programs and infra that actually helps people.

Even in the top echelon of the Indian government (Indian Administrative Services), a similar culture exists and has interestingly been strengthend as the power has fragmented across political parties. I personally know several of my top B School/Engineering college mates who joined and any of them would do very well in top management in private industry. You can see the result in the rapidity with which India is pulling people out of poverty and modernizing. Certainly alower than China, but pretty amazing seei living outside for a decade now - many urban services are already far superior in quality to what you get in Europe, US or even Singapore. The challenge in India is the bulk of the bureaucracy below them isn't held to the same standard.In India it's still a prestige thing only in the top echelon - the lower echlons are more motivated by job security, pensions and avenues for corruption.

The difference in Singapore is the government pays well enough to attract and retain higher quality talent deeper.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#53
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you never hear that is because waste and fraud are very low in reality. That’s why this made the news. It’s uncommon. We should be using the government to help people and when we do, it often does a good job. Examples: Roads, libraries, fire departments, schools, safety regulations…

Our public transportation infrastructure literally cost 10x per mile than France or Hong Kong. That's not waste to you? For what California has spent/is spending on high-speed rail from nowhere to nowhere, China blanketed their country? Notice you also left out police. How's our spending working there?

I’d note that China does not need democratic approval for any of its projects and thus is substantially more efficient.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I'd rather they just lower our taxes and quit squandering our money on these programs that never work. Would you support cutting military spending? It's a lot higher than other countries.

Definitely and we should have affordable universal healthcare and subsidized state university tuition. Everything else should be cut as much as possible. I don't see any programs that are working well.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather they just lower our taxes and quit squandering our money on these programs that never work. Would you support cutting military spending? It's a lot higher than other countries.

> It's a lot higher than other countries. That's because the US also defends the free world. Besides, not spending enough on the military can get very, very expensive.

> That's because the US also defends the free world.

The US invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Iraq have sure helped defend the free world. How many trillions went into those combined? Fantastic return per $ of "free world defense".

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#56
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our public transportation infrastructure literally cost 10x per mile than France or Hong Kong. That's not waste to you? For what California has spent/is spending on high-speed rail from nowhere to nowhere, China blanketed their country? Notice you also left out police. How's our spending working there?

I’d note that China does not need democratic approval for any of its projects and thus is substantially more efficient.

[dead]

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#57
post #5

selectively giving away free money to big business is straight corruption. there is no other way to put it. everyone involved should lose re election and get investigated by the financial crimes unit. but i dont think "leave it up to the market" is a better idea. investments like this just need to be transparent, open to everyone and set up strict punishment for stealing the money with prison for executives. if they…

Or —- hear me out —- create laws and tax policies compatible with growth, and apply them equally to everyone.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#58

> A new report suggests the state of Michigan is the latest to learn that lesson the hard way. There doesn’t seem to be any lesson-learning happening, since governments keep trying this despite the outcome always being the same.

>There doesn’t seem to be any lesson-learning happening... Which would indicate that creating jobs was not the actual reason for the grants. Given how trivially easy it would be fix the problem (simply make the grant contingent on the creation of jobs, otherwise it converts to a loan), the real purpose is probably a matter of generating headlines and raking in campaign contributions (with occasional full-on kickbacks…

Implementing your loan-contingency wouldn't prevent generating headlines, so that would only leave contributions and kickbacks.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#59
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you never hear that is because waste and fraud are very low in reality. That’s why this made the news. It’s uncommon. We should be using the government to help people and when we do, it often does a good job. Examples: Roads, libraries, fire departments, schools, safety regulations…

Our public transportation infrastructure literally cost 10x per mile than France or Hong Kong. That's not waste to you? For what California has spent/is spending on high-speed rail from nowhere to nowhere, China blanketed their country? Notice you also left out police. How's our spending working there?

California high speed rail has been a mess. Which is likely in part because politics dictating routes has raised the costs and timelines substantially. On a smaller scale SF was building a new subway in 2013 that had been on the drawing board for years. I remember thinking maybe I'd ride it to work one day. Opened in 2023 or 2024, after I had moved offices twice and then went to work from home. It's not a terrible line but because it had to go to the center of our Chinatown instead of 2 blocks over, it took quite a bit longer and became the deepest subway line in the city. Several other bits of stupidity too in that project but a big piece of the delayed timeline was that tunneling in SF is hard.

Plenty of other transit projects exist that have made real differences. Personally I'm a fan of the simple improvements: revised bus routes with dedicated bus lanes and improved stop & shelters, added bike lanes, etc. those sorts of projects are relatively cheap investments and while no single one is a silver bullet they add up. On a bigger scale - Caltrain's electrification was a big win. Both kinds of projects are easier than building whole new tracks or digging new tunnels. Extend and improve the existing systems. Most cities have something to start from.

Re: Michigan spent $1.8B and only created 602 jobs

#60
post #9
post #5

selectively giving away free money to big business is straight corruption. there is no other way to put it. everyone involved should lose re election and get investigated by the financial crimes unit. but i dont think "leave it up to the market" is a better idea. investments like this just need to be transparent, open to everyone and set up strict punishment for stealing the money with prison for executives. if they…

One idea I like is directly funding apprenticeship. It pays for job training and classroom instruction on a per-individual basis. The jobs are in long-term career sectors like advanced manufacturing, shipbuilding, aviation, healthcare, and technology. Here's one example: https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/osec/osec20250923 In Georgia, the employer is reimbursed $2,500 when an apprentice starts and up to $10,000 wh…

You mean what companies used to do before we decided to import cheap labor instead?
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