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For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

techstrong.ai

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Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#51

Post by cgannett »

logancbrown wrote: post #38
mbgerring wrote: post #14

There is no reason we should accept the enclosure of the digital commons represented by AI. The data these models are trained on amounts to the total intellectual and artistic output of human kind through recorded history. It belongs to all of us, and accordingly, so should the models and weights produced by it.

The effort of humans who had to toil through training models belongs to everyone? Do they no longer have any ownership over their hard work?

A drop in the bucket compared to the value of the collective human work that was stolen to train it.

edit: come to think about it I think the ratio of one drop to one bucket is vastly over estimating the ratio of the trainer's effort.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#53

Post by hootz »

cyanydeez wrote: post #40
mbgerring wrote: post #14

There is no reason we should accept the enclosure of the digital commons represented by AI. The data these models are trained on amounts to the total intellectual and artistic output of human kind through recorded history. It belongs to all of us, and accordingly, so should the models and weights produced by it.

ok, but government is how you do that. and as should be evident, its easy to year down and corrupt

Companies aren't really that better. Actually, sometimes it's even worse, because they are not even formally required to serve the public.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#54

Post by thewebguyd »

riddlemethat wrote: post #42
logancbrown wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effort of humans who had to toil through training models belongs to everyone? Do they no longer have any ownership over their hard work?

They got paid. That’s what the money was for. It’s the investors who backed these foundational model companies who will hold the bag as more open source models come along and consume more market share.

I agree, but

> the investors who backed these foundational model companies who will hold the bag

Is awfully bold to assume that private credit is who will be holding the bag here. The IPOs are coming to shift the risk to the index funds & retail. Once insider lock up periods expire, I suspect a massive sell off.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#55

Post by dofm »

logancbrown wrote: post #38
mbgerring wrote: post #14

There is no reason we should accept the enclosure of the digital commons represented by AI. The data these models are trained on amounts to the total intellectual and artistic output of human kind through recorded history. It belongs to all of us, and accordingly, so should the models and weights produced by it.

The effort of humans who had to toil through training models belongs to everyone? Do they no longer have any ownership over their hard work?

Paying them may now be impossible. There might be some legal settlements still.

Preventing a handful of massive companies from continuing to be the only ones able to make money off that, not only unimpeded but with overt or covert state assistance (regulatory capture, ownership, whatever), at least puts an end to the worst of the abuse.

If we have broken the idea of copyright, and we do indeed appear to have broken the idea of copyright, why should trillion dollar companies owned and controlled by strange or psychopathic weirdos and their circle of investors be the only ones benefiting? Why do Sam and Dario or the US government get to decide when and for whom the tap is turned on?

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#56

Post by swiftcoder »

Avicebron wrote: post #23
mbgerring wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d bet that there won’t be a RAM shortage for very long.

This seems wildly optimistic, do you have anything to support it?

The RAM shortage is predicated on both the huge datacenter buildout (many of which are already mired in delays, with a few even cancelled outright), and the massive memory purchase commitments various hyperscalers have made - hyperscalers who seem to be running short on cash lately...

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#57

Post by treis »

wrs wrote: post #36
jochem9 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an article on HN a few weeks ago where someone detailed how they managed to get an old datacenter GPU to run in their consumer PC, getting decent performance with qwen. He spent something like $200 on the GPU (second hand of course). So yeah, I think models on local hardware will be quite common soon among the tech savvy (such as people creating software).

Especially considering the millions of 2026-class data center GPUs that massively overinvested companies are currently buying, which will be obsolete in a few years.

I think those are going to be run until they die. The capex vs opex is too high to obsolete them in a few years. They'll keep serving current gen LLMs for as long as they keep running.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#58

Post by thewebguyd »

tencentshill wrote: post #44
logancbrown wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effort of humans who had to toil through training models belongs to everyone? Do they no longer have any ownership over their hard work?

Some consider copyright to be unethical. "Information wants to be free".

Information also wants to be expensive, and that tension will never go away. "Information wants to be free" is only one side of the context of that quote.

> On the one hand you have—the point you’re making Woz—is that information sort of wants to be expensive because it is so valuable—the right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information almost wants to be free because the costs of getting it out is getting lower and lower all of the time. So you have these two things fighting against each other.

Information may want to be free, but the humans creating it still need to eat and pay rent. Copyright isn't necessarily unethical more than its a flawed tool, and lasts far too long in the law's current state. It needs to last only and exactly as long for the original creator to profit from the work for a specific duration of time, and then thats it.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#59

Post by dbolgheroni »

dippogriff wrote: post #52

Edge models will get much better after the current insane capex and organic data for pre-training is dried out. But hard to see how the best open source models will ever come close to the best closed ones.

It's already happening. GLM-5.2 ranks quite close to SOTA models. Some might argue that benchmarks can't measure the real effectiveness for day-to-day usage but that's another discussion.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#60

Post by altcognito »

tencentshill wrote: post #44
logancbrown wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effort of humans who had to toil through training models belongs to everyone? Do they no longer have any ownership over their hard work?

Some consider copyright to be unethical. "Information wants to be free".

Great framing for your case, but I think it is less that it is unethical and more that ideas/copyright isn't perpetual, nor should it be fully transferrable to a corporation (a non-person entity)

I'd struggle to find an idea, art, technique etc... that wasn't an extension of something that came before it.

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