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Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#51

Post by ransom1538 »

bko wrote: post #13

Im confused, are there tasks given to 6 to 13 year old to use AI? In the classroom, are they just throwing gpt in front of them? Is that the modern equivalent of watching a vhs? Or do they have homework to vibe code something or given some prompts to ask at home and save somewhere? Serious question, what does this mean?

Teacher uses AI, creates lesson plan -> AI creates assignments -> Teacher gives assignments to students -> Students use AI to do assignment -> Teacher grades with AI -> Principal uses AI to monitor teachers progress.

This is happening at schools nationwide. It is unstoppable at this point. It's a bizarre charade.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#52

Post by lacoolj »

"..ban on smart phones.." "..ban on gen AI.." "..ban on social media.."

yes YES YASSSSSSSSSSSS

Ban all the things for kids. I don't want to be interviewing people in 10 years and decline every candidate because they can't correctly answer the question "You are 50ft away from the car wash. Do you walk or drive?"

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#53

Post by FinnLobsien »

I think it’s quite tricky. On one side, writing is a form of thinking and cognitive training.

Just NOT doing that work by having AI simulate it is not good for anyone’s cognitive development.

At the same time, anyone growing up today will be using LLMs for massive parts of the jobs they grow up to do. So they should learn about it.

I really feel for teachers/educators right now. It must be hard to remain demanding and insist on educating kids well while also preparing them for the future they’ll actually live in.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#54

Post by JumpCrisscross »

FloorEgg wrote: post #47
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reporting / nuance of "until we can research this better and figure out how to harness AI to improve outcomes and not undermine them" It’s balancing the irrationally exuberant narrative of the tech bros and AI pushers. You have to stop the bleeding before you can dress the wound to promote healing.

I don't think one balances a lack of nuance with more lack of nuance. One avoids nuance for clicks or to propagate a narrative, sew division, distract, etc. Again. As I said in both my comments, I'm not criticizing the ban, I'm criticizing the absence of any communication regarding a plan for researching potentially constructive uses. As a reader, I can't tell if the Norwegian leaders have no plan, or if they didn't…

Eh, if the politician thinks this is the clarity of language necessary to send the message, I think that’s fine. Studying this and that can come later. It’s not like anyone is banning that research.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#55

Post by LtWorf »

SubmarineClub wrote: post #35
baq wrote: post #14

AI used to write homework should be banned. AI in 1:1 tutor mode with proper hardware (live scanning pen and paper), harness and guardrails should be wildly successful (in terms of education outcomes) especially in elementary school.

Idk why you screeching AI touts are so confident about its ‘wild’ success in all areas given absolutely zero evidence to that effect. It’s tiresome.

It's inevitably your fault for prompting incorrectly or using the wrong model.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#56

Post by simonw »

> Pupils from first through seventh grade, aged 6 to 13, should as a general rule not be using AI, while those in lower secondary school, aged 14 to 16, can cautiously adopt tools under teachers' supervision, the government said.

Sounds right to me. Kids under 13 need to learn to read, write and comprehend text. Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills.

They can play with AI at home, and after 13 they can learn how to use AI productively and, ideally, in a way that enhances rather than detracts from their education.

Also from the story:

> Facing a broad decline in education test scores, the government in 2024 banned smartphones from schools and has given teachers back more powers to enforce discipline in the classroom.

A big hooray for that. Will be interesting to see what impact that has on Norway education - a quick search just now didn't turn up any detailed studies, presumably those will show up eventually.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#57

Post by cryo32 »

garganzol wrote: post #26

I already saw it in my life: a ban on calculators, a ban on computers. But after a short period of rejection, everybody starts to embrace the new tech. Instead of bans we were getting computer classes in schools.

I did mathematics, and a fair bit of computer science on the side. This was nearly all on paper, without computers. And I'd go a week or two without a calculator sometimes, mostly employing it when I had a bad hangover.

Do we really need to force technology into everything or are we just used to doing it so see it as necessary?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#58

Post by [deleted] »

analog31 wrote: post #43
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI makes me worse at programming but helps me learn things much more quickly than reading textbooks. Both can be true.

Oddly enough, I never was able to learn things from textbooks, except in the context of a traditional classroom lecture course. I've also met maybe one or two people in my life who were able to learn the subjects of my college majors -- math and physics -- at any level from a textbook alone.

[deleted]

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#59

Post by JumpCrisscross »

FinnLobsien wrote: post #53

I think it’s quite tricky. On one side, writing is a form of thinking and cognitive training. Just NOT doing that work by having AI simulate it is not good for anyone’s cognitive development. At the same time, anyone growing up today will be using LLMs for massive parts of the jobs they grow up to do. So they should learn about it. I really feel for teachers/educators right now. It must be hard to remain demanding an…

> anyone growing up today will be using LLMs for massive parts of the jobs they grow up to do. So they should learn about it

Whatever AI looks like in 20 years is going to be so different from what it is today as to make distracting from basic skill-building an almost-certainly net negative educational effort.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#60

Post by solid_fuel »

baq wrote: post #14

AI used to write homework should be banned. AI in 1:1 tutor mode with proper hardware (live scanning pen and paper), harness and guardrails should be wildly successful (in terms of education outcomes) especially in elementary school.

Disagree. AI has no business being used in 1:1 tutor mode before the hallucination and sycophancy issues are completely resolved. As is, I can easily see it being a hindrance to building actual understanding.

Just one example - it's very common to see ChatGPT and the like respond with "you're absolutely correct! Great insight" to something that is a complete misunderstanding.

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