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Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

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Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#52
post #4

> 30-50% of engineers on core teams have been forcefully reassigned to data labeling and RLHF, upsetting folks even more. This really doesn't sound believable to me, but who knows with all the craziness going on. Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources. And the percentage sounds very high, unless "core teams" is only a small subset of the total…

I believe it, because it makes a kind of sense. Post-training has a huge impact on how well LLMs perform, and labeled data is what determines the effectiveness of post-training. This is why companies like Anthropic are so worried about distillation. So if you have access to a large number of highly skilled people, and you really don't absolutely need them to do other things, why wouldn't you force data labeling tasks…

From the article:

> Forced data labeling with 4,500+ engineers is to generate high-quality RLHF

I doubt that you get high quality from forced reassignments where the now-data labelers don’t actually want to do that kind of work.

It’s crazy to think that Meta leadership believed that it makes sense.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#53
post #9

[flagged]

Ya god forbid people want to have careers at leading tech companies so they can have a more abundant life built by their skillsets and discipline. We cant all work in the forest like you. you realize that the majority of engineering positions at meta in fact arent dealing with the knobs and levers of manipulation? do you have no pity for the coal plant worker who supports his family while working for a company that p…

"When we looked inside he saw that what was said of them was true of him as well. So it was either rage or weep; and so he raged."

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#54
Former meta bellend here:

Zuck only cares about features, or new features. He probably likes power too, but I'm less certain than that. To curry favour with Zuck all you need to do is make a new feature, ideally using AI/AR.

The problem is, zuckerberg trusts no-one, so he is surrounded by familiar faces that act as his inner court. The problem for meta and the rest of the world, is that most of them are utter brainless dicks.

Cox is utterly useless, he has the cognitive faculties of a flea. the rest of the product council has been ruthless bred for agreeing, rather than making good product decisions. Worse still they are either wilfully blind or just blind to the second order effects that their actions take.

Boz, in person is nice. Boz as a leader is a vapid, lacks insight fails to provide actual direction and lets his ego bruise too often. He was 2 years to late to NFTs, Regularly picked fights with juniors in the comments.

The other elephant in the room is the monetisation department. They are basically the drivers of most of the problems in facebook.

Notification fatigue? yeah probably them,

AI slop to boomers? deffo

Rage bait? yup

Fraud? totally profitable.

There was a concerted effort by engineers to try and make meta better (see sophie Zhang), however as time moved forward those that cared were diluted by those that were just there. They recruited far too agressivly in 2020. we had too many people then, but "there was a plan"

They started firing people in 2022, and never stopped. It was clear that Zuck wanted to be a big man, and doesn't really understand how to run his company (Sandberg is a terrible person, but a good leader, even though shes a monumental hypocrite. He saw her as she is, and assumed thats what the rest of the world saw.)

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#55
post #42

Is Meta the same story as Twitter? Two companies with way more highly paid engineers that are needed to maintain a mature social platform and ad network? Funny how both reorgs were done in about the most expensive way imaginable. Twitter through overpriced acquisition, and Facebook through technological adventurism.

Note that both kneecapped their previously quite open APIs, too.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#56
post #4

> 30-50% of engineers on core teams have been forcefully reassigned to data labeling and RLHF, upsetting folks even more. This really doesn't sound believable to me, but who knows with all the craziness going on. Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources. And the percentage sounds very high, unless "core teams" is only a small subset of the total…

> Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources.

The frontier work is on labeling and training expert content, by experts. It's unglamorous work and almost certainly doesn't warrant FAANG pay, but neither did most of the work that most FAANG engineers were already doing. But it does require competent talent from the expert domain.

Like their peer companies, Meta is still sitting on a huge pool of vetted-as-competant workers from the hiring boom and expert AI training is the most ripe business opportunity in a fragile economy where pretty much every comparable opportunity has evaporated.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#57
They probably just don’t need them anymore. Obviously they are confident that their AI workers are doing a good enough job, and my feeling is that they aren’t planning on creating any groundbreaking new software anytime soon that requires the same number of human engineers to do the work. I think it’s potentially a canary in the coal mine type of warning for the rest of the industry. If a company like Meta doesn’t think it needs the headcount, then other big companies will likely soon follow.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#58
post #4

> 30-50% of engineers on core teams have been forcefully reassigned to data labeling and RLHF, upsetting folks even more. This really doesn't sound believable to me, but who knows with all the craziness going on. Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources. And the percentage sounds very high, unless "core teams" is only a small subset of the total…

Isn't that Scale AI investment in a company that does labeling? what are we missing? Are we all going to be labelers soon too?

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#59
post #38

"It’s literally the gulag" - okay this was a funny comment its unclear to me why they need their model to be the best at coding (maybe to build an internal technical moat?)

Because coding appears to be the most monetizable use of AI, for some time to come.

Re: Is Meta destroying its engineering organization?

#60
post #4

> 30-50% of engineers on core teams have been forcefully reassigned to data labeling and RLHF, upsetting folks even more. This really doesn't sound believable to me, but who knows with all the craziness going on. Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources. And the percentage sounds very high, unless "core teams" is only a small subset of the total…

> Software developers in the US are seriously expensive, using them for data labeling would be a waste of resources.

Zuck basically went to a town hall and explained to his employees that their remaining value to him is as training mules for his AI.

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