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Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

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51–60 of 261 posts

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#51
post #11

It's not just old guys, you know. 8 years ago, I was able to design the same quality of websites, yet no one gave a fuck because I was 'too young' according to them. Today, they are ready to pay me thousands of dollars because I have the age factor and a couple of white hairs. Many people are under the wrong notion that age = experience. While it may be partially true, it isn't all the time. When you're young, you ha…

You're still designing websites that look like they were made before YouTube existed?

It's a very good joke, but obviously no. I designed what looked good for 8 years ago. Now I design what looks good for 2012. That's what I actually meant! :D

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#52

My first thought: narcissism . Narcissists hate being around older people because it reminds them that, some day, they'll be old and unable to do the sorts of things that narcissists tend to do on the weekend. I don't think that all founders are narcissists, but if you want to be able to hire narcissists (which 75% of execs are, let's be honest) then ageism becomes practical, sadly. Then again, I think some of it is…

What kind of things do narcissists do on the weekend that would be specifically limited by age?

Many SV startups are proxies for being a close knit frat. Hiring for "cultural fit" has gone way off the wacko deep end. (Did google start this? "Oh, you don't have a degree? We won't hire you. Oh, but you do make your own beer and wear funny shoes? Cultural fit! Hired!")

Your job description skills matter, but only if you also are a functional alcoholic who is addicted to playing online games for 30+ hours a week in addition to working 60+ hours a week.*

Startup is Mother. Startup is Father.

* I write this out of bitterness because I don't drink or play video games, which oddly I feel disqualifies me from working many places. "Oh, you don't play xbox? That's okay, I guess. The entire company gets together for six hours on Friday to drink and play marathon games though."

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#53
When you get older, several things work against you to jump into SV culture:

- You are not as easily impressed by or eager to try new technologies. (many of which are new spins on old ideas you've seen before.)

- You fail to see the appeal of the types of technology younger people are using. Or, you see the switching costs as too high to move away from what you are using now.

- Your lack of ignorance leads you to (often correctly) identify that an idea will lead nowhere. The problem is sometimes you are wrong.

I think the best way to fight against ageism is to make an effort to retain an open mind and curiosity. Try new things, even if you think they are going not be worth your time. Try to see the novelty in things that may seem to be a rehash of old ideas. Realize that no matter how stupid an idea sounds, sometimes it's worth trying, because you can't always predict the future, no matter how much you've seen.

Just think of the number of people on HN who have posted about how they don't understand Facebook, Twitter, or shoot down some whiz bang new technology. I've done it sometimes myself. Engineers are naturally skeptical, but this skepticism can grow out of control. It's fine in moderation but there's a tendency for this type of perspective to grow with age naturally, and that can ultimately undermine your ability to recognize and execute on genuinely novel, good ideas.

If I could hire someone who had both extensive experience but did not have a chip on their shoulder and lived on the edge of the curve like a 20 year old I'd do it. But it's pretty hard to not have a chip on your shoulder in this industry after a decade or two, and it's hard to continue to adopt the latest technology and not just settle in at some point along the way.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#54

Isn't this partly because SV is most interested in developing social apps for hip teenagers? It's probably difficult for a 40 something year old to know how to design an application for this crowd.

I am not convinced that there is something inherently special with the ways young people consume technology that only other young people have mystical insight towards. There are people in their fifties on HN, tweeting away before twitter was cool and avidly using Pinterest. I think it is more about what you find interesting rather than how old you are.

After all, I would think that 80-90% of toys are designed by people who are not between the ages of 3-9. I am fairly certain these toys are profitable.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#55
post #49
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me ragechannel pg for a minute: People are not created equal. Some are much smarter and much more capable than others. Once you reach a certain age, if you haven't "made it," you aren't one of the smarter and much more capable people. Being younger, you both don't know what you don't know and you haven't become set in unchangeable broken ways yet. Google likes to hire young so they can brainwash you into being "g…

So I'm not a fan of ageism and I wouldn't ascribe it to pg without evidence... But given the "startup = growth" essay, where he says that only 1 company per cycle makes any difference to YC's returns, I can see the logic behind ageism. Young people (I'm not one of them anymore) just have more unpredictable outcomes. They are the Black Swans. The Black Swan theory is that the outliers shape our world. And that has bee…

You nailed it with Older people are perhaps more likely to be successful. But there is less variance in their outcomes.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#56
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of things do narcissists do on the weekend that would be specifically limited by age?

Late night clubbing and extreme sports?

Fred Becky was climbing El Cap well into his 80's. You might have something with clubbing though.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#57
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is America. Get litigious! Things are illegal for a reason. They can't ask about your age or family status. When your CEO gets up and says "We don't hire anybody over 28 years old," a dozen lawsuits should be filed within a week. It's amazing people let other people get away with ruling the world this way. *edit: I had over/under switched in the CEO quote. Fixed.

Most states' (and federal) law protects older, not younger, workers... in many jurisdictions that means being over 40.

Are the laws really that specific? I thought the way it generally worked was that discrimination based on age was illegal, but being young is viewed as a proxy for inexperience, so discriminating on that basis is OK. I didn't know there was generally a specific cutoff.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#58

My first thought: narcissism . Narcissists hate being around older people because it reminds them that, some day, they'll be old and unable to do the sorts of things that narcissists tend to do on the weekend. I don't think that all founders are narcissists, but if you want to be able to hire narcissists (which 75% of execs are, let's be honest) then ageism becomes practical, sadly. Then again, I think some of it is…

What kind of things do narcissists do on the weekend that would be specifically limited by age?

There are less chances that they have children and a serious relationship so they are supposed to have more freedom to do what they want. This isn't of course a general assumption. I know married persons with children who spend way more time than me on personal projects the week end.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#60
Would a 60 year old really want to work 18 hour days with a bunch of 20-somethings crammed into a San Francisco studio converted office?

A Silicon Valley startup is just one type, but there are infinite businesses out there to start and grow at any age in your life.

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