It's not just old guys, you know. 8 years ago, I was able to design the same quality of websites, yet no one gave a fuck because I was 'too young' according to them. Today, they are ready to pay me thousands of dollars because I have the age factor and a couple of white hairs. Many people are under the wrong notion that age = experience. While it may be partially true, it isn't all the time. When you're young, you have the urge (and the energy) to make some really bold choices, which you will think twice to make when you reach a certain age (especially when you're married, have kids, etc..). So yeah....age bias sucks!!
Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
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Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#12Isn't this partly because SV is most interested in developing social apps for hip teenagers?
It's probably difficult for a 40 something year old to know how to design an application for this crowd.
Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#13Two points: 1. There's a big difference between job-searching at 40 and job-searching at 60. At 60, you're potentially 5 years away from retirement, so it's not surprising that companies are hesitant to hire. 2. Depending on the specific startup, younger people really may be more effective, at least in certain areas. For example, something like Facebook (during its early days), which targeted college students. A twen…
I don't know why you wouldn't hire someone if 5 years is all you could expect. Do you seriously believe that your retention rates will be higher for someone under 30? Also, why would someone in technology need to retire at 65?
Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#14My first thought: narcissism. Narcissists hate being around older people because it reminds them that, some day, they'll be old and unable to do the sorts of things that narcissists tend to do on the weekend. I don't think that all founders are narcissists, but if you want to be able to hire narcissists (which 75% of execs are, let's be honest) then ageism becomes practical, sadly.
Then again, I think some of it is subconscious and unintentional: unreasonably harsh age-grading, coming from an inexperienced and privileged set of people who've never had to do grunt work and therefore have slack-free careers. People who are young and have high career efficiency ratios expect a linear trend-- consistently improving projects-- but the reality for most people (save privileged 22-year-olds) is that they have to take the work they get, rather than being able to focus on their passion or highly-visible (e.g. open source) work. I, personally, would love to hire someone in his 60s with no slack in his career-- I'd make him my personal mentor and figure out how he did it-- but it's quite rare to find such a person.
The reason ageism exists is that most people have to take low-quality, career-toxic work to (a) avoid income volatility that becomes more unacceptable with age, (b) evade the "job hopper" stigma, and (c) remain employable without moving to another city every 3 years, and this creates a world in which premature decline is far more common than it should be.
Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#15It's not just old guys, you know. 8 years ago, I was able to design the same quality of websites, yet no one gave a fuck because I was 'too young' according to them. Today, they are ready to pay me thousands of dollars because I have the age factor and a couple of white hairs. Many people are under the wrong notion that age = experience. While it may be partially true, it isn't all the time. When you're young, you ha…
You're still designing websites that look like they were made before YouTube existed?
Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#16I've had someone in a YC funded company flat-out tell me that it was going to be a problem for me. (43, and no, he wasn't in the process of hiring me.)
This is America. Get litigious! Things are illegal for a reason. They can't ask about your age or family status.
When your CEO gets up and says "We don't hire anybody over 28 years old," a dozen lawsuits should be filed within a week. It's amazing people let other people get away with ruling the world this way.
*edit: I had over/under switched in the CEO quote. Fixed.
Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, no, not as much. That's the point of the article. Age bias is cited significantly more frequently in California. That's why the article is news. The first 1/3 of the article provides a few paragraphs worth of hard numbers and statistics.
California != Silicon Valley, though. It also includes the LA area, for example.
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Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#18I've had someone in a YC funded company flat-out tell me that it was going to be a problem for me. (43, and no, he wasn't in the process of hiring me.)
For what it's worth, it wouldn't be a problem for you at all here (MongoHQ). Anecdotally, I don't think it would be a problem at the more desirable YC companies either.
Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#19They are calling this "a secret"? - more like overt bigotry from what I have seen. Isn't Y-Combinator one of the worst offenders? From what I have read Paul Graham brags actually about his age discrimination.
Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias
#20would love to hear pg weigh in on this...
Let me ragechannel pg for a minute: People are not created equal. Some are much smarter and much more capable than others. Once you reach a certain age, if you haven't "made it," you aren't one of the smarter and much more capable people. Being younger, you both don't know what you don't know and you haven't become set in unchangeable broken ways yet. Google likes to hire young so they can brainwash you into being "googly." Same with other companies. Once your brain thinks you need six TPS reports every day, it's not worth fixing you when we can hire younger, unbroken people. VCs love 'em young. Sequoia bluntly states they prefer to fund two guys working from a dorm room.
These days,"young people" are part of the technology. It's not something they learn as abstract concepts. They are it and it is them. You wouldn't expect a 50 year old Elbonian mud farmer to go to school and learn to be a world class electric car designer. But, you would expect a 50 year old world class electric car designer to still be hot shit.
Or, in song lyrics: maybe I should learn to shut my mouth -- I am over 25 and I can't make a name for myself; some nights I break down and cry.
The brilliance of our current situation is what "they" think of you is more and more irrelevant. Just make something people want. People have unlimited wants after all.