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Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

theguardian.com

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Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#51
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are excluding most government and charity funding into medical research. VC funding includes firms inside of the medical industry, but also companies operating across most of the economy. It’s not just IT, but food, solar, EV’s, rockets, etc. So, IMO these numbers are pretty reasonable.

I'm happy to see corrections with citations. I'd posted what information I could find. I found your original dismissal without any documentation unsatisfactory, and wanted to quantify overall rather than specific-firm-instance funding. And you're still not providing any citations for your claims. I suspect that the overall spend going into AI / adtech / digital media is disproportionately large relative to pharma spe…

The 425B VC numbers are global, and again include some medical funding 25B in 2024, so ~25B in 2025 seems reasonable thus non medical VC at 400B flat is a reasonable number. https://dealroom.co/guides/healthtech-guide

“In the US, the federal government, private companies, universities, states, associations, and philanthropic foundations collectively invest more than $245 billion (PDF)Note 2 in medical research each year. https://unbreaking.org/issues/medical-research-funding/

“The US carries out 46% of global research and development (R&D) in the life sciences, making it the world leader in medical research.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomedical_research_in_the_Uni...

That suggest the numbers work out to global non medical VC funding at 400B vs 500B for medical research globally.

I’m not saying these numbers are particularly accurate, and they aren’t limited to drug research, but it does provide a different perspective.

PS: As to US federal funding of medical research quite a lot is sitting in the tax code rather than being handed out as grants, it’s not directly relevant. Except it rather inflates what companies label as medical R&D. This makes my position worse, but I bring it up because the actual numbers are dependent on how you interpret what’s going on. Do we include VC funding that’s essentially a private sale of equity from the founders to investors which doesn’t provide the company money? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#52
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the enviable position to not be actively dying from an untreatable disease, so obviously haven’t seen things from the other side of this sort of situation. But to me, that doesn’t sound like a life worth living. Obviously different people will have different thresholds for when to throw in the towel, and I’m glad that we are finding medicines to allow people to make the choices that align with their own drive…

This may sound condescending but: you sound young, not disabled, and extremely sheltered from being exposed to disabled people. I am in a position to be intimately familiar with illness. I will say that health is a spectrum and the mind is incredibly resilient. You will surprise yourself as you inevitably age how much your mind will adapt to always hurting. There is more to life than body discomfort. This patient sou…

Why do you feel the need to attack the person character by stating he is probably young and/or has not dealt with disability in his social circle? This is needlessly aggravating and actually pissed me of when reading it.

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the KRAS mutations are somatic (spontaneous), not inherited

So presumably something causes the spontaneous mutations?

Nature.

DNA is unstable. Lots of stuff cause mutations: background radiation, chemicals, viruses, even our own normal metabolism [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_oxygen_species#Oxidat...

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#54
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the abstract of the article, there were 2 groups of patients. One group had median values of 8.5 months for progression-free survival and 13.1 months for overall survival. The other group had median values of 8.1 months for progression-free survival and 15.6 months for overall survival. Overall Survival (OS) measures the time until death from any cause. Progression-Free Survival (PFS) evaluates how long…

Your numbers are a little off. The NEJM article was published a few hours ago: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2605555 RAS G12 population mOS: daraxonrasib 13.2 months / chemotherapy 6.6 months Overall population mOS: daraxonrasib 13.2 months / chemotherapy 6.7 months RAS G12 population mPFS: daraxonrasib 7.3 months / chemotherapy 3.5 months Overall population PFS: daraxonrasib 7.2 months / chemotherapy 3…

My numbers were not at all off.

I have quoted exactly the numbers that were written in the abstract of the article yesterday, at the same link that you have used.

What is very weird is that the abstract of the article has been changed, and now it is as you say.

So the numbers from today are worse than those from yesterday.

Perhaps the abstract of yesterday corresponded with a preliminary version of the study report, but meanwhile more patients have died, which has been taken into account in the final version, lowering both the median values for overall survival and for progression-free survival.

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#55
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always. Everything that pet owners do to their pets is driven by the owner's human feelings and not the pet's animal needs. Obviously, because we can't communicate with the pets and they can't tell us what we want. And we have total control over their lives so we do what we want. I'm personally particularly upset by the easy conviction with which most people neuter their pets. I can rant for hours on the ethics of th…

The harm of neutering and spaying needs to be balanced with the harm of having dramatically greater numbers of feral cats and dogs, whose lives are often what I will charitably describe as not enviable, and with the problems having large numbers of feral animals can cause to an area. The alternative we in America have settled on right now is shelters which perform euthanasia on unwanted animals. I would love to know…

There are plenty of places in the world were stray cats and dogs are normal and there's nothing wrong with that. You may find their lives not enviable; but you are a human. Er, presumably. Plenty of strays in Greece where I'm from are taken care of by volunteers so they're well fed and they have shelter and medical care when they need it. The greatest danger is traffic accidents but that's also true for domestic animals and neutering certainly doesn't protect from that.

You use the word "feral" but I find that's a bit of a loaded term because it makes it sound like those animals are wild and violent. They're usually not, or at least not more than domestic animals. In the UK, where I live, there are no strays and still there are thousands of dog attacks, some causing injury or even death every year. Cats of course don't attack humans unless you really piss them off and even then it's not like they can seriously injure you.

You could also think about all the "feral" animals we do not try to neuter in large numbers like pigeons or seagulls. Much of what's wrong with their lives is that people treat them like dirt. That's not a problem you solve by castrating an animal, or at least a non-human animal. Why only neuter cats and dogs? Because we care more about them? That sounds like some kind of perverse inversion to me.

And let's not forget: the only difference between a "feral" or stray cat or dog and a pet is that someone's taken the pet in. I suppose in civilised countries you only get your pets from a certified breeder and you know their pedigree but where I come from if you want a cat or a dog you can just take one from the street. Or, often, they come to you on their own; cats mostly, but dogs, too some times. That was the case for most of the animals I've ever cared for: basically all the cats and a couple of the dogs too.

>> I would love to know how communities that have banned these procedures deal with the issue.

There's a famous documentary about the stray cats of Istanbul, called Kedi (meaning "cat" in Turkish). I haven't watched it yet but it sounds like the thing you'd want to watch if you haven't grown up with strays all over the place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kedi_(2016_film)

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#56
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your numbers are a little off. The NEJM article was published a few hours ago: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2605555 RAS G12 population mOS: daraxonrasib 13.2 months / chemotherapy 6.6 months Overall population mOS: daraxonrasib 13.2 months / chemotherapy 6.7 months RAS G12 population mPFS: daraxonrasib 7.3 months / chemotherapy 3.5 months Overall population PFS: daraxonrasib 7.2 months / chemotherapy 3…

My numbers were not at all off. I have quoted exactly the numbers that were written in the abstract of the article yesterday, at the same link that you have used. What is very weird is that the abstract of the article has been changed, and now it is as you say. So the numbers from today are worse than those from yesterday. Perhaps the abstract of yesterday corresponded with a preliminary version of the study report,…

No offense intended. I guess someone in the RevMed Scientific Comms team had a more stressful day than they'd envisaged.

> Perhaps the abstract of yesterday corresponded with a preliminary version of the study report, but meanwhile more patients have died, which has been taken into account in the final version, lowering both the median values for overall survival and for progression-free survival.

No. The 'data cut' that these numbers are based on will have been taken (at least) weeks ago. You don't get (anything close to) real-time updates in the manner that you're implying. It was probably just a simple snafu somewhere along the line.

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#57

I hope they can get this to people quickly. Someone I love has been diagnosed with stage 3 end of Feb this year and it's utter hell. For everyone, not just the patient.

Honestly. for the ~2 months my mum had between a totally out-of-the-blue stage 4 melanoma diagnosis and the day she died in the hospice, I don’t think there’s anything she would have wanted less than to endure more of that existence, if someone had offered her that pill.

I'm sorry your mom had to suffer like that :( My loved one really wants to live, and I suppose some people are at different stages of mind with this horrible disease. I wouldn't want to extend suffering too, but if the patient wants to fight the disease, it is up to them.

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#58
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to see corrections with citations. I'd posted what information I could find. I found your original dismissal without any documentation unsatisfactory, and wanted to quantify overall rather than specific-firm-instance funding. And you're still not providing any citations for your claims. I suspect that the overall spend going into AI / adtech / digital media is disproportionately large relative to pharma spe…

The 425B VC numbers are global, and again include some medical funding 25B in 2024, so ~25B in 2025 seems reasonable thus non medical VC at 400B flat is a reasonable number. https://dealroom.co/guides/healthtech-guide “In the US, the federal government, private companies, universities, states, associations, and philanthropic foundations collectively invest more than $245 billion (PDF)Note 2 in medical research each y…

Thanks for that.

I'd argue that the numbers suggest that venture spend on info tech / AI / social media is at least of the same order of magnitude as new drug discovery, if not more.

It would be interesting to compare blockbuster drugs of the past 5--10 years or so to see what types of investment have been made there. mRNA / Covid19 vaccines, and GLP1s.

A Deloitte report gives oncology, infectious disease, and chronic conditions (particularly obesity and diabetes) as key areas.

It also gives some relevant numbers re investment and revenue:

The increase in IRR is driven by promising late-stage pipeline candidates and impressive trial outcomes (the average forecast peak sale has increased to US$510 million). However, high R&D costs, which reached an average of US$2.23 billion per asset in 2024, present a continuing challenge.

https://www.deloitte.com/ch/en/Industries/life-sciences-heal...>

(And if you're confused by exactly what that 'graph is actually communicating, I am too: "$2.23 billion per asset" is an odd and unclear phrasing.

From StartUs Insights, "Drug Discovery Market Report 2025":

The global drug discovery industry was valued at approximately USD 106.70 billion in 2025.

(Emphasis added.)

And...

The drug discovery sector includes 5370 companies with 990+ startups. The leading country hubs are the USA, the UK, India, China, and Japan, and major city hubs include San Diego, Cambridge, London, New York City, and San Francisco. ...

Over 9550 funding rounds closed with an average of USD 34 million per round. More than 7600 investors invested in over 2220 companies.

Doing the maths on that last: about $325 billion in funding.

https://www.startus-insights.com/innovators-guide/drug-disco...>

Also relevant is projected growth of industries.

AI, which leads infotech venture spend presently, is valued at $515 billion in 2026, and is projected to grow at 30.6% CAGR, reaching $1 trillion in 20209 and $3.5 trillion by 2033.

https://resourcera.com/data/artificial-intelligence/ai-marke...>

(Whether or not you, or I, believe these projections is less material than what the markets and investors believe, and they seem to be acting on the assumption that the market and asset values will grow.)

Pharma by contrast, is estimated at $1.7 billion 2025, growing at 6.08%, and reaching $2.8 trillion by 2033.

https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/pharmace...>

Which is to say that whilst projected AI and pharma markets in five years are comparable, growth in AI is seen as 5x the rate of pharma. And investment follows growth, not total value.

Pharma spend is largely capped by public and private insurance spend, which tends to be mature, already high relative to total economic activity, is constrained on multiple fronts, and divides results and rewards amongst multiple entities (both drugs/therapies and companies). Biggest growth is projected in Asia-Pacific.

Projections for AI spend are ... somewhat unhindered by empirical data or practical realities, and at least as told at investor storytime, promise both the heavens and stars and winner-take-all dynamics, such that money is chasing the possibility of landing on the top of the heap.

Again: quite probable that there's a lot more money available for AI moonshots than new drug discovery, though perhaps grounded more in anticipation and psychology than reality or net social benefit.

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#59
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound condescending but: you sound young, not disabled, and extremely sheltered from being exposed to disabled people. I am in a position to be intimately familiar with illness. I will say that health is a spectrum and the mind is incredibly resilient. You will surprise yourself as you inevitably age how much your mind will adapt to always hurting. There is more to life than body discomfort. This patient sou…

There has been recent attention on what treatments oncologists choose for themselves when diagnosed with terminal illnesses—having seen firsthand what happens to quality of life for their patients—and what members of the general population choose. Doctors tend to choose the treatments that bias quality of life over quantity of life. That’s all I’m getting at here. I personally hope that if it ever comes to it, I will…

probably articles like this

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/how-doctors-die

> Physicians are less likely than the general population to undergo intense end-of-life treatments

Re: Daily pill can double survival time for deadliest cancer, trial shows

#60
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 425B VC numbers are global, and again include some medical funding 25B in 2024, so ~25B in 2025 seems reasonable thus non medical VC at 400B flat is a reasonable number. https://dealroom.co/guides/healthtech-guide “In the US, the federal government, private companies, universities, states, associations, and philanthropic foundations collectively invest more than $245 billion (PDF)Note 2 in medical research each y…

Thanks for that. I'd argue that the numbers suggest that venture spend on info tech / AI / social media is at least of the same order of magnitude as new drug discovery, if not more. It would be interesting to compare blockbuster drugs of the past 5--10 years or so to see what types of investment have been made there. mRNA / Covid19 vaccines, and GLP1s. A Deloitte report gives oncology, infectious disease, and chroni…

> at least of the same order of magnitude as new drug discovery

That’s a valid way of looking at things, but diminishing returns tells a different story.

People have been looking at treating the same disease with 100’s of billions / year across decades. What completely new ideas haven’t been explored with the 10’s of trillions of dollars we already spent? Vs deep learning or perhaps more narrowly LLM style AI where the total investment over the last 50 years is probably ~1% of what’s been spent on drugs.

So sure in 2026 things look heavily weighted to “junk” tech, but overall it’s probably at least a 2 orders of magnitude difference from a slightly different but still reasonable take. Similarly looking forward people are only going to toss 100’s of billions at it in 20 years if it’s actually had a massive impact, without that it’s a short term blip.

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