Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Deno 2.8

deno.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 193 posts

Re: Deno 2.8

#51

Post by nailer »

vmg12 wrote: post #42
dan_rock_wilson wrote: post #26

Deno: has a basic permission model that is very helpful, written in Rust, and native TypeScript support. I'm not deep in the webdev / node / Bun ecosystems, I've just been a happy user of Deno for small services for several years. Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun? Is it just being used as a bundler, but not as JS runtime? Just the permission system alone (though I wish it extend…

Deno and Bun had very different focuses when they launched. Deno was trying to fix a lot of what Ryan (the original creator of Node) thought was wrong with Node. Bun focused on compatibility with Node and the ability to run popular frameworks like Nextjs from the beginning. A lot of dependencies and frameworks simply did not work with Deno for a long time. In the beginning it didn't even have the ability to install d…

(thinking emoji) they could merge.

Seriously, they're both Rust now. They share goals.

Re: Deno 2.8

#52

Post by dmit »

dan_rock_wilson wrote: post #26

Deno: has a basic permission model that is very helpful, written in Rust, and native TypeScript support. I'm not deep in the webdev / node / Bun ecosystems, I've just been a happy user of Deno for small services for several years. Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun? Is it just being used as a bundler, but not as JS runtime? Just the permission system alone (though I wish it extend…

> Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun?

In my case, when I start a little Typescript side project, instead of drowning in the sea of npm/yarn/berry/pnpm/bubble/vite/webpack/rollup/rolldown/rollout/swc/esbuild/teatime/etc I can just use one thing. And yes, only some of those are Pokémon moves and not actual tools from the JS/TS ecosystem.

Re: Deno 2.8

#53

Post by mmastrac »

afavour wrote: post #20
mohsen1 wrote: post #15

> Deno now defaults to npm: This is an interesting development. npm after all is the de-facto ecosystem and leaning into it makes sense. I'm wondering how Deno would've been received if it supported npm and package.json from day 1.

I actually lost interest in Deno once it started leaning into NPM. I thought it was a bold and wise idea to make a clean break from the mess of Node and restart with a sensible ecosystem. Absent that... I'm just sticking with Node.

I previously worked at Deno and even with all that tbh, I am not sure the http deps were the right way to go. I've really wanted to like them but package managers really have advantages.

I would not say npm was the right direction. I actually was a fan of JSR (didn't work on it but all my experience with it was great)

Re: Deno 2.8

#55

Post by vorticalbox »

dan_rock_wilson wrote: post #26

Deno: has a basic permission model that is very helpful, written in Rust, and native TypeScript support. I'm not deep in the webdev / node / Bun ecosystems, I've just been a happy user of Deno for small services for several years. Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun? Is it just being used as a bundler, but not as JS runtime? Just the permission system alone (though I wish it extend…

I think the main issue was when deno first came out it used urls for imports then later added support for npm.

By then bun was already a thing and just ate into its share.

Re: Deno 2.8

#56

Post by wifipunk »

darkwi11ow wrote: post #23
simonw wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means they're a whole lot less likely to run out of money, which makes them a safer bet as a dependency.

Afaik there is no proof Anthropic is profitable. This, and uv buyout by OpenAI only adds a risk to supply chains. In few years these companies can be overrun by open source models or startups delivering new hardware/software breakthrough in LLM. It is not like uv and bun are acquired by IBMs or Alphabets of today.

Wasn't it announced that Anthropic is having their first profitable quarter right now in Q2? From what I've personally seen it's all driven by enterprise adoption.

Open source/foreign models are already way cheaper and will work just fine for most use cases but a lot of businesses are already pretty locked in to Claude, and with enterprise costing $240 a year at a 20 seat minimum it's a pretty big investment to make and won't be worth migrating unless the gains are significant.

Re: Deno 2.8

#57

Post by ale »

I think if Deno had held on to their initial values for a little longer the pressure towards node compatibility would have been mended by AI agents, because a lot of the pressure is the result of skill issues: if the only way you know how to set up is using express.js then any subsequent tool or runtime must provide a similar abstraction for a “smooth” transition, regardless of how bad the first solution was in the first place. Nowadays you introduce devs to new tech by delivering your product with a set of skills that in practice have replaced documentation and sometimes can be very good at showing better alternative approaches to whatever you’re building.

Re: Deno 2.8

#58

Post by refulgentis »

darkwi11ow wrote: post #23
simonw wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means they're a whole lot less likely to run out of money, which makes them a safer bet as a dependency.

Afaik there is no proof Anthropic is profitable. This, and uv buyout by OpenAI only adds a risk to supply chains. In few years these companies can be overrun by open source models or startups delivering new hardware/software breakthrough in LLM. It is not like uv and bun are acquired by IBMs or Alphabets of today.

What happens if Anthropic and OpenAI shut down?

Is it different from the status quo prior?

Re: Deno 2.8

#59

Post by robflynn »

npn wrote: post #37
dan_rock_wilson wrote: post #26

Deno: has a basic permission model that is very helpful, written in Rust, and native TypeScript support. I'm not deep in the webdev / node / Bun ecosystems, I've just been a happy user of Deno for small services for several years. Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun? Is it just being used as a bundler, but not as JS runtime? Just the permission system alone (though I wish it extend…

because for most people they don't need what deno promises. me for example only use nodejs or bun to run a basic sveltekit server, so it can render the html for the first time. all core functionalities are delegated to backend services written in crystal or rust. I don't need some bloated js runtime that hoard 500MB of ram for that purpose (crystal services only take 20+ MB each). bun promised a lean runtime, every e…

I hadn't heard of crystal somehow, I work with ruby a lot so that might be fun to play around with.

Re: Deno 2.8

#60

Post by tomjakubowski »

nailer wrote: post #51
vmg12 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deno and Bun had very different focuses when they launched. Deno was trying to fix a lot of what Ryan (the original creator of Node) thought was wrong with Node. Bun focused on compatibility with Node and the ability to run popular frameworks like Nextjs from the beginning. A lot of dependencies and frameworks simply did not work with Deno for a long time. In the beginning it didn't even have the ability to install d…

(thinking emoji) they could merge. Seriously, they're both Rust now. They share goals.

I doubt it would work out. The engineering cultures could not be any different.
Post reply on HN