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Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

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Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#51

Post by fuzzythinker »

plqbfbv wrote: post #48
FireBeyond wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Starlink is also available, np I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

> I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back. I had to use Starlink last year, and latency was way more acceptable than expected even when under load (I did try to analyze and remove bufferbloat). Considering Tesla could likely get priority bandwidth from SpaceX basically for free, that would mean good latencies (I had 90ms tops in speedtests). Anyway you tell the car where to…

90ms is absolutely not an acceptable delay. On a 25mph road, each 90ms is .0006 mile ~= 1 meter. Latency goes both ways, so that is a possible 1 meter before operator reacts and another meter before the corrective action takes place. Like other comment mentioned, remote operations can only be used for high-level instructions (or simpler highway driving).

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#52

Post by whynotmaybe »

EA-3167 wrote: post #33
joe_mamba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, like so many others, I managed to beat NFS Underground 1 and 2, Most Wanted and Hot Pursuit using only the budget brand e-waste special keyboard, no analog controllers. IIRC some of the top NFS players also used the keyboard instead of fancy racing syms. So it's probably possible to control real life cars with a keyboard, provided they implement dedicated input filtering, PID controllers or Kalman filters, and t…

Unless you beat them without crashing once that’s not impressive in a real world context. Life doesn’t have saves to reload.

Neither does mudrunner and snowrunner and I play with a keyboard.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#53

Post by BoorishBears »

joshribakoff wrote: post #40
BoorishBears wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not for anyone else: the non-Tesla AV companies use teleops to at most place breadcrumbs that the vehicle attempts to follow while still in full control of collision avoidance and lower level navigation. There is never an actual remote driver turning the wheel.

While working at Cruise, i built tech to measure the latency even though they just draw a path. Latency absolutely does matter, otherwise you’re drawing that path through a crowd of people. You admit yourself they still need to be responsible for collisions, which you cannot safely do if the latency exceeds the safe tolerance. It doesn’t matter whether you’re drawing a path or turning a Mario kart steering wheel if t…

Read my comment again... the vehicle is doing collision avoidance.

If Cruise really rolled out teleops that relied on low latency reactions from remote operators to not drive into crowds (not to mention perfectly reliable uplink), I'll have to file that away under reasons they're not around anymore.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#54

Post by pixel_popping »

bdangubic wrote: post #47
ryandrake wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly, in 2026, this is a controversial opinion.

this is 100% because we are under full-on cultism. you say anything anti-Tesla and army of elon defenders will go after you immediately. none of them would put their kids in one of these “robo”taxi “F”SD shits but they will defend elon/tesla mercilessly

To be fair it seems worse on the other side here on HN at least, I rarely see positive comments about Elon, so both sides seems to be doing the echo-chamber and defender mode, it's getting seriously absurd to not be able to have talk on technology itself without it getting into politic, especially for non-US residents :/

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#55

Post by Neywiny »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #50
Neywiny wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just the test though. In some states you need approaching 100 hours of signed off driving with an experienced driver (honor system though) and a certified course

What state? This source seems to indicate that 70 hours is the extreme upper limit, with some states allowing as few as 6. https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/teenagers/graduated-lice...

Ah. Good fact check. I swapped the numbers on minimum community service hours to graduate high school and this. But I think my point still stands that you can't just walk in and take the test

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#56

Post by dzhiurgis »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #23
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

You might be overestimating how hard it is to get a license in the states. My test was literally pay private driving school operator $50, pull onto a four lane road, change lanes, change lanes back, turn right three times to get back to the road, turn left, park successfully between the lines nose in, …and here’s a piece of paper for the DMV to give you a license. Maybe ten minutes, and have never had anyone check to…

It's 2,500-3,500 Euros to get a license in Germany. I heard someone paying 6-8k tho.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#58

Post by dzhiurgis »

FireBeyond wrote: post #22
jnsie wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume/hope that Tesla teleoperators are required to have drivers licenses in the states in which the cars they are operating are located?

Given that some of these teleoperators are in the Philipines, and Tesla's sterling reputation for adhering to regulation and laws, I'm going to hazard my own guess.

Why the blatant lies tho? Waymo people are in Philipines. And when power went out in SF entire Waymo fleet died too because teleops couldn't take over...

https://www.techspot.com/news/111233-waymo-admits-autopilot-...

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#59

Post by dzhiurgis »

UltraSane wrote: post #42
nomel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo does do teleoperation [1], and they defend its use [2]. Human fallback isn't something to be ashamed about. AGI doesn't exist at the moment. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/waymo-defends-use-remote-...

Waymo absolutely does NOT do teleoperation in the sense that a remote driver is directly controlling steering, braking, and acceleration. Instead they at most route the car. The self-driver is directly controlling the car at all times. "In the most ambiguous situations, the Waymo Driver takes the lead, initiating requests through fleet response to optimize the driving path. Fleet response can influence the Waymo Driv…

They literally admitted having team in Philippines and people in this thread literally twisted that around https://www.techspot.com/news/111233-waymo-admits-autopilot-...

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#60

Post by jmpman »

When I attempt to get a drivers lic, I'm required to have 20/40 vision in at least one eye. That 2 arc minute resolution. In theory I can turn my head and use my mirrors such that I can see almost 360 degrees around. This suggests that a robotaxi should have equivalent or better resolution, and a teleoperator should be able to view those video streams at this 20/40 vision. I doubt that's happening, which makes me wonder why they're allowed to drive these vehicles with less visual acuity than is required to get a drivers license.
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