Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#31

Post by Munksgaard »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #23
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

You might be overestimating how hard it is to get a license in the states. My test was literally pay private driving school operator $50, pull onto a four lane road, change lanes, change lanes back, turn right three times to get back to the road, turn left, park successfully between the lines nose in, …and here’s a piece of paper for the DMV to give you a license. Maybe ten minutes, and have never had anyone check to…

Having taken a license in both Denmark and the states, the test in the states was laughable in comparison. In Denmark, there are like 20 mandatory lessons, wet-surface practice, a theoretical exam and a practical exam, both of which people routinely fail (because they're hard). In the US, I paid 20 bucks, drove around the block, parked and received my license.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#32

Post by pixel_popping »

FireBeyond wrote: post #21
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

> Starlink is also available, np I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

I don't get it, you prefer a road accident?

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#33

Post by EA-3167 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #14
whynotmaybe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

W-A-S-D on a Dell keyboard wouldn't surprise me.

Hey, like so many others, I managed to beat NFS Underground 1 and 2, Most Wanted and Hot Pursuit using only the budget brand e-waste special keyboard, no analog controllers. IIRC some of the top NFS players also used the keyboard instead of fancy racing syms. So it's probably possible to control real life cars with a keyboard, provided they implement dedicated input filtering, PID controllers or Kalman filters, and t…

Unless you beat them without crashing once that’s not impressive in a real world context.

Life doesn’t have saves to reload.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#34

Post by lern_too_spel »

nomel wrote: post #30
AlotOfReading wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's setup are a bunch of desks with steering wheels crammed together in a normal call center [0]. Waymo doesn't do teleoperation, but other companies exist that have like Vay. Compare their setup [1]. [0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuE3ie2WcAAyeWs?format=jpg&name=... [1] https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6828f0...

Waymo does do teleoperation [1], and they defend its use [2]. Human fallback isn't something to be ashamed about. AGI doesn't exist at the moment. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/waymo-defends-use-remote-...

The second paragraph of your link says Waymo does not do teleoperation.

"Much like phone-a-friend, when the Waymo vehicle encounters a particular situation on the road, the autonomous driver can reach out to a human fleet response agent for additional information to contextualize its environment. The Waymo Driver does not rely solely on the inputs it receives from the fleet response agent and it is in control of the vehicle at all times."

This is different from a remote operator directly controlling accelerator, steering, and brakes.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#35

Post by Toutouxc »

pixel_popping wrote: post #32
FireBeyond wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Starlink is also available, np I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

I don't get it, you prefer a road accident?

I would personally prefer if companies didn’t offer services that simply don’t or can’t work as advertised.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#36

Post by AlotOfReading »

nomel wrote: post #30
AlotOfReading wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's setup are a bunch of desks with steering wheels crammed together in a normal call center [0]. Waymo doesn't do teleoperation, but other companies exist that have like Vay. Compare their setup [1]. [0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuE3ie2WcAAyeWs?format=jpg&name=... [1] https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6828f0...

Waymo does do teleoperation [1], and they defend its use [2]. Human fallback isn't something to be ashamed about. AGI doesn't exist at the moment. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/waymo-defends-use-remote-...

That's not teleoperation. Teleoperation has a human directly in the control loop, so latency and stability of the connection directly impacts the vehicle system's ability to maintain safety, because the input has to go vehiclenetworkhuman to produce an output.

What those blog posts are talking about is a different strategy called remote assistance where the vehicle remains the only thing in the control loop, but a human provides guidance to help the computer navigate itself. This makes the latency and stability of the connection much less important for maintaining safety.

It's not unheard of for companies in the industry that use remote assistance to also have an local option for remote control (for things like lot operations and vehicle rescue events), but that's not part of routine on-road operations and it's usually limited to a <5mph limp mode where the operator is physically present.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#37

Post by ryandrake »

Toutouxc wrote: post #35
pixel_popping wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it, you prefer a road accident?

I would personally prefer if companies didn’t offer services that simply don’t or can’t work as advertised.

Weirdly, in 2026, this is a controversial opinion.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#38

Post by KennyBlanken »

outside1234 wrote: post #24

Just nuts this company is so highly valued still. Just clown level execution the whole way down.

Everything about every company he's ever been involved in has been a clown show, including Paypal. Though in Paypal's case it was just outright stealing people's money under the guise of "suspicious activity" or "terms of service violation."

He's the PT Barnum of our age.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#39

Post by kotaKat »

Computer0 wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the tele operators for either this or waymo interface with the vehicle? Do they have like a sim racing sort of setup? Are they trying to do this through an xbox controller type of thing? I know the military went that route.

Phantom Auto has folks using Logitech wheels at home to drive forklifts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zGK5YVaQ2A

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#40

Post by joshribakoff »

BoorishBears wrote: post #29
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

It's not for anyone else: the non-Tesla AV companies use teleops to at most place breadcrumbs that the vehicle attempts to follow while still in full control of collision avoidance and lower level navigation. There is never an actual remote driver turning the wheel.

While working at Cruise, i built tech to measure the latency even though they just draw a path. Latency absolutely does matter, otherwise you’re drawing that path through a crowd of people. You admit yourself they still need to be responsible for collisions, which you cannot safely do if the latency exceeds the safe tolerance. It doesn’t matter whether you’re drawing a path or turning a Mario kart steering wheel if the information you’re acting upon is incorrect or outdated.
Post reply on HN