America Lost the Mandate of Heaven • Hacker News Board

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#51

Post by A_D_E_P_T » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:48 AM UTC

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #38

Imagine using Hong Kong as evidence of a good society and saying “No homelessness anywhere”. One of the most expensive real estate markets in the world, where people are living 4-6 to the room. This is simply expat navel gazing and little more.

Have you ever been to Hong Kong? Despite having a crazy expensive real estate market, there really is no visible homelessness. I've lived in Hong Kong for 10 years and I can't recall seeing a homeless person even once. (To the extent they exist, it's heavily stigmatized and they hide out of sight, in tents in the woods.)

What's more:

> "it is the Government's housing policy to provide public rental housing (PRH) to low-income families who cannot afford private rental accommodation"

> https://www.gov.hk/en/residents/housing/publichousing/index....

Sure, there's a wait-list, but it's available in principle to all of the needy.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#52

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:48 AM UTC

roncesvalles wrote: post #30

The Chinese are not worried about AI taking anyone's job. In fact they're excited by it. For some reason, there is this unbelievably thick air of paranoia in America where everyone is just waiting for the day when their job will go away. To a point where I think it should be classified as mass hysteria and looked into by public health authorities. We should all introspect why so many of us perceive America as this ve…

[deleted]

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#53

Post by boxed » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:49 AM UTC

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #43

boxed wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a the forefront of catching up. Don't mistake that for innovation. China isn't building the best chips, that's Taiwan with really Netherlands doing the hard part. China is catching up to European car makers except they've largely caught up to Tesla in the powertrain (I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons). In the AI space obviously China is just running after playing c…

> I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons What would be different in Tesla’s output if Americans didn’t start boycotting Tesla less than 2 years ago? And I’m glad you think killing at least half a million kids in Africa to not even save any money, stealing all our social security data, etc are just “silly political reasons”.

> What would be different in Tesla’s output if Americans didn’t start boycotting Tesla less than 2 years ago?

Car companies do better if they sell cars. They also find it easier to sell cars if owning said car doesn't make you fearful some crazy person will smash it because of identity politics.

> And I’m glad you think killing at least half a million kids in Africa to not even save any money, stealing all our social security data, etc are just “silly political reasons”.

Oh, I'm not. But hurting Tesla and putting a break on saving the planet will do what exactly? Absolutely jack shit.

It's like that story about the guy who made nice Game Boy clones, and people figured out he was an arms dealer originally and started a campaign to boycott the Game Boy clone. What will this accomplish? Destroying someones moral and good business will force them to go back to their evil business. It's counterproductive as hell.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#54

Post by Luker88 » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:51 AM UTC

BirAdam wrote: post #15

derelicta wrote: post #6

The US Empire has reached the limit of its capitalistic mode of production. Now is time for Americans to consider the next step of any industrialised capitalist society; scientific socialism. It did wonder for China, Vietnam, and many more, and it can do wonders for the American people too.

Except that America is not, and never has been, capitalist. Much like socialism or communism, capitalism has never been achieved. The closest I know any society to have come is the USA between the late 1860s and 1913. Yet, that still wasn’t a capitalist society. Half of the country was under military occupation, people were forced to segregate by law, and the USA was conquering people militarily and committing genoci…

> There are no free markets

Good? Things like crypto and the current usa administration should have thought us that completely free markets are ripe for corruption and insider trading. None of that produces anything, and merely concentrates and ties together power and capital.

> As it becomes regulated, the monopolies become entrenched, innovation slows, homogenization is enforced, and products undergo a diminution in quality as monopolies needn’t compete

All of that happens because we let the monopolies do the regulation, and limit and block any antitrust action.

When people talk about a "free" market, they mean "free as in fair".

When billionaires talk about "free" market they actually mean "free as in deregulated".

You don't get "fair" without regulation.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#55

Post by alex43578 » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:51 AM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #16

vrganj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is selling the world solar panels while the US is making gas unaffordable.

The US passed up multiple opportunities to fund its own more foundational solar industry

The US does a terrible job trying to throw government cash at problems. See: Solyndra, PPP, the US’s inability to build ships, or most recently the debacle of Biden’s $7.5B rollout of EV chargers that only managed to build a few dozen stations in 3 years.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#56

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:53 AM UTC

boxed wrote: post #34

direwolf20 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is at the forefront of innovation. America is not, except for financial innovation a.k.a. the best ways to get money out of people without doing actual work.

China is a the forefront of catching up. Don't mistake that for innovation. China isn't building the best chips, that's Taiwan with really Netherlands doing the hard part. China is catching up to European car makers except they've largely caught up to Tesla in the powertrain (I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons). In the AI space obviously China is just running after playing c…

>I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons)

China taking over the EV market was always going to happen. for instance, BYD sold (tens of thousands of) their first EV a decade before Musk went from le wholesome space man to le evil nazi man.

besides, I don't think being boycotted by the terminally online folx has had much impact. luxury brands just don't do well during a recession, and the market for Tesla - US and Europe - is not doing so good, to put it mildly.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#57

Post by bluGill » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:54 AM UTC

derelicta wrote: post #6

The US Empire has reached the limit of its capitalistic mode of production. Now is time for Americans to consider the next step of any industrialised capitalist society; scientific socialism. It did wonder for China, Vietnam, and many more, and it can do wonders for the American people too.

capitalisn is a strawman. America is a classital liberal society. Much of capitalism follows from that, but the message of freedom is where it starts. Marix didn't dare argue against freedom ever though that was his goal so he invented capitalism as a strawman he can knock down.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#58

Post by DangitBobby » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:54 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #20

oezi wrote: post #14

The article is certainly firebranding, but the core tenet strikes a valid point: how has the US lost the plot within such a short time? How did it go from the flag bearer of freedom and progress to isolationist bully that wants to invade Greenland and become best friends with Russia? From the outside it is really hard to comprehend. Was it FoxNews that poisoned the American mind or the social media brainwashing? How…

> how has the US lost the plot within such a short time? How did it go from the flag bearer of freedom and progress to isolationist bully that wants to invade Greenland and become best friends with Russia? American culture has lost its near-monopoly on optimism. We're now almost as cynical as the Europeans. (:D) That cynicism means civic disengagement, technological doomerism and general symptoms of depression. That…

I disagree that the loss of optimism is causative. I've lost my optimism because I've seen what we're capable of as a country and it's not reassuring.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#59

Post by tristanj » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:56 AM UTC

boxed wrote: post #34

direwolf20 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is at the forefront of innovation. America is not, except for financial innovation a.k.a. the best ways to get money out of people without doing actual work.

China is a the forefront of catching up. Don't mistake that for innovation. China isn't building the best chips, that's Taiwan with really Netherlands doing the hard part. China is catching up to European car makers except they've largely caught up to Tesla in the powertrain (I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons). In the AI space obviously China is just running after playing c…

China is the world leader in Drones, Electric vehicles, Batteries, Solar Panels, Electronics, Robotics, High-Speed Rail, Industrial equipment, Nuclear energy, Telecommunications Equipment, Cameras, Shipbuilding, Scientific research, rapid mobile payments.

Tied for AI, Smartphones

Semiconductors, rockets, and aerospace are probably the only sectors china is behind in.

China is the most technologically advanced society on earth. They are far far ahead of anyone else in using technology to make society easier. Many government services can be handled easily on your phone.

Re: America Lost the Mandate of Heaven

#60

Post by anarticle » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 10:58 AM UTC

roncesvalles wrote: post #30

The Chinese are not worried about AI taking anyone's job. In fact they're excited by it. For some reason, there is this unbelievably thick air of paranoia in America where everyone is just waiting for the day when their job will go away. To a point where I think it should be classified as mass hysteria and looked into by public health authorities. We should all introspect why so many of us perceive America as this ve…

A reason for the thick air of paranoia is that now, everyone knows someone that has been laid off. Simply so many that it is starting to hit home. Estimates are near 2008, and if you lived through that you know that help is not coming on a timescale that you could have to massively change your life.

You lose your job, two years go by, time to sell you your house and move. Hiring is a total circus right now as well, being subjected to a five course hiring obstacle course is a lot of time that you're burning your savings and or missing other opportunities. Compare this to nearly any time since 2012 when it was at most three, and maybe ONE was a technical.

Most people do not save in America, and even when you are employed the health care system does not take great care of you. All of this "choice" is presented as capitalism working, but really it's a set of land mines where two large entities decide how much they want to take from you (the hospital, and the insurance company). Since the pricing is opaque and the amount the insurance company pays is capricious, vaya con dios.

The line feels like don't get sick, and your own country has thrown you to the wolves (they're in on it). Similar to unemployment, and the other "safety nets" not managed centrally or well. Massive delays, and your mortgage is due.

Also, you are paying for all of these safety nets all the time when you are making money, but it is deeply gated when you need it. Sorry for the paragraphs, but watching a friend go through this now and it's very wild.

If you're able to save more than 10%/m, you are very ahead of the game.

As for USA losing the Mandate of Heaven, even people from other countries seem sad to see it happening. Informally, two different groups of Portuguese people I've talked to in the last two weeks in Lisbon had a sentiment of "how could this have happened to such a great country?" Mostly due to the extreme news reports coming from the US, ICE, war, rhetoric etc.