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Long Range E-Bike (2021)

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Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#51

Post by thwarted »

Aurornis wrote: post #28
estebank wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this to be growing pains. Legislation hasn't yet fully adapted, some of the legislation I've seen makes the mistake of conflaing these, and enforcement is nonexistent in most places. I suspect that as time passes, we'll find ways of allowing ebikes to flourish. Around me the biggest thing I've seen is parents on cargo bikes taking their kids, and that's a demographic that elected officials tend to listen to…

We have the laws. What they’re doing is illegal. I think they need a higher tier of penalties for the repeat offenders, but that would require anyone getting caught first. It’s an enforcement problem. The riders know they’re riding where police cars can’t get them. They also know that the bike cops aren’t allowed to ride ultra powerful electric motorcycles. They also know they can just drive off across some grass int…

> We have the laws. What they’re doing is illegal. … It’s an enforcement problem.

Because some people think laws only ever exist to restrain as a show of power over others and something is only illegal if you get caught.

And some people just want to be contrarian and acting against the law is the ultimate punching-up.

Some laws are just a good idea, and provide benefit, or even just expectation/predictability, to everyone.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#52

Post by WarmWash »

Aurornis wrote: post #37
estebank wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you're talking about, but a lot of people are conflating them. In some cases it is legislators like a recent attempt to require ebikes have to register and have a drivers' license for them. In others it's parents not realizing that they got their kids an electric dirt bike instead of an ebike. Of course, you do have the antisocial element of people not caring and actually seeking out these, but we need to…

> In some cases it is legislators like a recent attempt to require ebikes have to register and have a drivers' license for them. Has any legislation been passed or was this only a proposal? Crazy legislation gets proposed all the time with no possibility of passing. Some times no intent of passing, either.

I made a comment below about the law that just passed in New Jersey. The short of it is "Anything with two wheels and a motor is now legally a motorcycle, and must follow all the laws and regulations of motorcycles.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#53

Post by mikestew »

c0balt wrote: post #18
WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

> Pedal assist ebikes are incredible, and really just turn weak cyclists into strong cyclists The more useful case ime is turning cyclists with reduced mobility into regular cyclists. In particular quite a few elderly people seem to have picked it up in my city, they aren't quite strong riders but definitely seem able of adapting to normal traffic. It also seems like a significantly safer option for individual transp…

The more useful case ime is turning cyclists with reduced mobility into regular cyclists.

You mean, turn weak cyclists into strong cyclists, like GP said? :-)

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#54

Post by WarmWash »

captainmuon wrote: post #33
WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

I don't understand that point. Why do e-bikes become better or more safe when you have to rotate your legs? Its really frustrating and silly that I have to go through the motions (literally) of riding a bicycle if I want to get the priviledge of using a bike lane or going without a license plate. (At least that's the case here in Germany AFAIK). They could go ahead and make "fast electric bikes" and "slow electric bi…

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

We can focus on clamping down of "faux pedal ebikes" when the time comes, but for now it looks like we'll be throwing out everything to just to stop teenagers on surrons.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#55

Post by WarmWash »

conductr wrote: post #41
WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

As an alternative mode of transportation, that could/should replace car usage for many people, I think we need to separate the two completely as well. The throttle version needs to be regulated more like a motorcycle or moped. This would take it out of the hands of most kids and cause license suspension worries for young adults and other reckless users. I agree they are essentially death machines and governments gene…

There is nothing standing in the way of electric motorcycles.

People get e-motos because it is effectively a motorcycle, except it doesn't have any road legality requirements. People treat them like bicycles that can just magically go 50mph.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#56

Post by brianwawok »

c0balt wrote: post #18
WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

> Pedal assist ebikes are incredible, and really just turn weak cyclists into strong cyclists The more useful case ime is turning cyclists with reduced mobility into regular cyclists. In particular quite a few elderly people seem to have picked it up in my city, they aren't quite strong riders but definitely seem able of adapting to normal traffic. It also seems like a significantly safer option for individual transp…

Elderly on a basically unlicensed motorcycle is a good recipe for injury. Pretty sure the stats look bad for this group especially

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#57

Post by brianwawok »

captainmuon wrote: post #33
WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

I don't understand that point. Why do e-bikes become better or more safe when you have to rotate your legs? Its really frustrating and silly that I have to go through the motions (literally) of riding a bicycle if I want to get the priviledge of using a bike lane or going without a license plate. (At least that's the case here in Germany AFAIK). They could go ahead and make "fast electric bikes" and "slow electric bi…

How much riding does it take to hold 25mph? 12 months of solid riding? (This is being generous, many people will never hold this speed)

How much riding does it take to twist your arm 30 degrees?

You don’t see a difference?

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#58

Post by thrill »

WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

“E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes”

This is simply wrong and does a disservice to the growing eBike interest. The US-federally defined classes are proper and while IMO overly limiting (max speed should be 60kph and still classified as an eBike as it’s simply safer in traffic), they adequately classify what is an eBike and what is not, and having a throttle does not make something not an eBike, but max speed and power.

People have this urge to classify their limited version of what something is by how they use it with some desire to belittle others, and want to limit everyone else who have completely different requirements and capabilities and desires. eBikes in most US states can be ridden on sidewalks, in bike lanes, in traffic, on trails, and across a grassy meadow. There is no justifiable reason to require someone to have different eBikes to be able to do all those things with comfort and safety and capability and utility when a well engineered eBike can do all of them. That they might be safer with circumstantially restricted speeds, such as overtaking pedestrians, etc. again does mean multiple eBikes should be mandated to be able to do each of them.

In the US, hopefully the next administration will buy a vowel and realize they need to set federal standards and eliminate this hodgepodge state and county and city and park and street and neighborhood capricious variety of who can ride what when and where, and with what gear and at what times and for what reasons. If decisions are made that no one under 13 can ride an eBike, and then only to school until you’re 16, and you must wear a helmet until at least 19, then at least there will be consistent rules for people to argue for and against.

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