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Tesla is committing automotive suicide

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Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#51

Post by jamincan »

p-o wrote: post #2

What makes this move even more incredulous is that none of the two market they want to move towards are proven markets: - Waymo is generating less than 150m in 2025. - Consumer robotics is an absolute unknown. How can the transition be rationally justified? Let alone the valuation.

A lot of the current valuation is based on Elon drumming up investor expectations. As they start to lose their spot as market leaders in EV, Tesla's inability to deliver on what Elon promised will become more clear as their competitors level with and surpass them.

Moving to new, unproven markets is fruitful ground for someone like Elon to drum up expectation and hopefully keep distracting people from the fact that he's had very few recent successes to show for all the hype he receives.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#52

Post by Zigurd »

p-o wrote: post #2

What makes this move even more incredulous is that none of the two market they want to move towards are proven markets: - Waymo is generating less than 150m in 2025. - Consumer robotics is an absolute unknown. How can the transition be rationally justified? Let alone the valuation.

They haven't said it explicitly. But the reason that Waymo can add five cities this year is very likely they are at least at break even on opex. They likely reached that point sometime last year and it seems to have held up.

So I wouldn't call robotaxi service unproven. But I would call the idea that you can claim to be running a robo taxi service without depots, cleaners, CSRs, and remote monitoring that can handle difficult situations in a more sophisticated way than each car having a human monitor it, naïve.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#53

Post by Fischgericht »

nailer wrote: post #9
p-o wrote: post #2

What makes this move even more incredulous is that none of the two market they want to move towards are proven markets: - Waymo is generating less than 150m in 2025. - Consumer robotics is an absolute unknown. How can the transition be rationally justified? Let alone the valuation.

Because it's hard and Tesla think they can do it. See 'reusable rockets' and 'having paralysed people control things with their minds' for other examples. HN often seem to think there's Elon fans downmodding things but it seems more like a case of irrational hatred.

'having paralysed people control things with their minds' would be great if you guys had a healthcare system that would pay for it.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#54

Post by tasty_freeze »

jjice wrote: post #20
z2 wrote: post #7

Tesla also announced they will be discontinuing the basic lane keep + adaptive speed cruise control they helped pioneer in cars sold going forward. But this is now a standard (free) feature even in basic vehicles like the Toyota Corolla. Why would they intentionally cripple their vehicles to the point hat they would be inferior to most cars today? Then I learned that Musk's incentive pay has a 10 million full self-dr…

I have a newer Corolla that's pretty much the absolute floor of the base model (LE with I believe minimal packages) and it has all the technology one would expect now, all while having physical buttons where it matters. Lane assist and adaptive cruise control are table stakes now.

Indeed, I have a 2023 Corolla. The dealer didn't like it when I said "LE" stands for "Low End" as a joke (it means Limited Edition).

The technology for such a low end car is impressive. In addition to adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, the display shows the speed limit not by consulting a map but by reading the signs as you drive down the street. They call it RSA, Road Sign Assist. It also uses the camera and radar to alert when there are potential hazards (closing too quicky on the car in front, and lane changing into someone in the blind spot).

All that in a $23K car, built into that base price.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#55

Post by FireBeyond »

z2 wrote: post #7

Tesla also announced they will be discontinuing the basic lane keep + adaptive speed cruise control they helped pioneer in cars sold going forward. But this is now a standard (free) feature even in basic vehicles like the Toyota Corolla. Why would they intentionally cripple their vehicles to the point hat they would be inferior to most cars today? Then I learned that Musk's incentive pay has a 10 million full self-dr…

> the basic lane keep + adaptive speed cruise control they helped pioneer

What? Basic lane keep and adaptive cruise control have been around a lot longer than Tesla.

Mercedes introduced ACC in 1999 (though Mitsubishi had an accelerator-only - could apply or ease off accelerator but not actively brake - in 1995).

Lane keeping was introduced again by Mitsubishi in the early 90s, though it was more 'lane departure warning'. But by 2000 Mercedes was offering it in some trucks and by 2003 Honda had it widely available in the Inspire with active lane keeping.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#56

Post by nailer »

MBCook wrote: post #23
nailer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's hard and Tesla think they can do it. See 'reusable rockets' and 'having paralysed people control things with their minds' for other examples. HN often seem to think there's Elon fans downmodding things but it seems more like a case of irrational hatred.

So? They could make the first working flying cars. They could work fantastically. And maybe one they release them we find out… no one wants flying cars. They sell 500 a year despite only costing as much as a normal car. Just because you can figure out how to do something doesn’t mean you’re going to make money at it.

Are you saying SpaceX doesn't make money? I have no idea about Neuralink but the first sounds pretty odd.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#57

Post by nottorp »

Xmd5a wrote: post #31
z2 wrote: post #7

Tesla also announced they will be discontinuing the basic lane keep + adaptive speed cruise control they helped pioneer in cars sold going forward. But this is now a standard (free) feature even in basic vehicles like the Toyota Corolla. Why would they intentionally cripple their vehicles to the point hat they would be inferior to most cars today? Then I learned that Musk's incentive pay has a 10 million full self-dr…

2 days ago: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/47744955/paok-fans-ki... I'll let you find the video, it's brutal. Allegedly caused by lane assist activating out of the blue when overtaking other cars.

That was 2 days ago and it caught my eye.

Unfortunately, today in Romanian news:

Google translated link:

https://hotnews-ro.translate.goog/cocaina-cannabis-si-alcool...

Original link:

https://hotnews.ro/cocaina-cannabis-si-alcool-in-sangele-sof...

Informative title:

Cocaine, cannabis and alcohol in the blood of the driver of the minibus with Greek supporters involved in the accident in Timiș, prosecutors announce

Lol part:

The hypothesis was rejected by the company that rented the minibus. The company's lawyer stated to the Greek publication naftemporiki.gr that the rented vehicle did not have the lane assist system.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#59

Post by code_for_monkey »

elbasti wrote: post #39

Elon's superpower is commanding insane valuation premiums. The trouble with this is that "the bill eventually comes due", so to speak, which forces Elon's companies to take wilder and wilder bets, or to make wilder and wilder promises. With telsa it was robotaxis, and when that failed to materialize, humanoid robots ( fucking LOL ). SpaceX is an even more insane example. They are eyeing an IPO at a 1.5 trillion valua…

the humanoid robots thing is so ridiculous, theres no way that comes to fruition
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