Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#51

Post by SeoxyS » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 1:02 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #44

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

Without this, advertising wouldn't be possible? Maybe it would be less successful, maybe less prevalent, maybe less useful, but I'm pretty sure advertising would still be possible in a world with no device-specific IDs made accessible to the advertisers.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't mean that it wouldn't be possible, just not a successful business model like it is now.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#52

Post by mikeash » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 1:11 AM UTC

SeoxyS wrote: post #51

mikeash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without this, advertising wouldn't be possible? Maybe it would be less successful, maybe less prevalent, maybe less useful, but I'm pretty sure advertising would still be possible in a world with no device-specific IDs made accessible to the advertisers.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't mean that it wouldn't be possible, just not a successful business model like it is now.

That, too, is clearly false. Perhaps not as successful, but advertising built plenty of powerful businesses long before this kind of technology became available.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#53

Post by salem » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 2:00 AM UTC

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

Privacy-wise this strategy is bogus. It requires API users to do the right thing (TM), but has no real way to enforce it.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#54

Post by salem » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 2:03 AM UTC

ralfd wrote: post #41

revelation wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for giving us the information on "what's actually going on". But that makes it seem worse, even when you apparently can't see it from working in the field. Apple continues to give apps access to the UDID; the recent leaks were apparently not as stark a reminder as some people thought. The "Limit Ad Tracking" option seems wholly useless; another "X-Do-Not-Track". In this case, the user even expresses the wish t…

If Apple wouldn't provide an ID then developers would code their own device identifiers. This here is crossplatform for iOS and Android: https://github.com/ylechelle/OpenUDID/blob/master/README.md Or just read the MAC address: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/677530/how-can-i-programm... > Google does just fine without a globally unique "advertising number". It can do so because people get actual value for the adve…

At least on Android, this becomes a little more transparent, and why so many Android apps request permission to access to network and/or phone state, to get access to unique Ids.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#55

Post by Terretta » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 2:05 AM UTC

ralfd wrote: post #39

ralfd wrote: post #29

4 weeks ago: > "Apple adds new "Limit Ad Tracking" feature to iOS 6" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4545602 3 weeks ago: > "Google implements Apple's Ad Identifier for mobile tracking choice" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4581781 Both hacker news submissions have zero comments. Why is it that a month ago no one cared, but now everyone is grabbing his tin-foil hat? Also I am pretty sure at least some of the…

Addendum: It is explained (from the developers point of view) in the WWDC 2012 session "Privacy Support in iOS and OS X". https://developer.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2012/?id=710 The old UDID is splitted into three new API: 1. Application ID, which scope is the app and lifetime is till uninstallation of this app. 2. Vendor ID: scope is developer and lifetime is till uninstallation of all developer's apps. 3. Advertising…

Thanks for this succinct info.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#56

Post by salem » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 2:06 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #44

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

Without this, advertising wouldn't be possible? Maybe it would be less successful, maybe less prevalent, maybe less useful, but I'm pretty sure advertising would still be possible in a world with no device-specific IDs made accessible to the advertisers.

Really what should be happening is that Google Play and iTunes should support affiliate tags on URLs/intents that are passed through to the app on install.

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#57

Post by ralfd » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 3:38 AM UTC

revelation wrote: post #38

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

Thanks for giving us the information on "what's actually going on". But that makes it seem worse, even when you apparently can't see it from working in the field. Apple continues to give apps access to the UDID; the recent leaks were apparently not as stark a reminder as some people thought. The "Limit Ad Tracking" option seems wholly useless; another "X-Do-Not-Track". In this case, the user even expresses the wish t…

Google recommends developers use the "Android_ID". I bet Admob, Googles app ad network also requests this:

http://android-developers.blogspot.de/2011/03/identifying-ap...

Re: Apple Turns on iPhone Tracking in iOS6

#58

Post by cbs » Tue, Oct 16, 2012, 4:00 AM UTC

SeoxyS wrote: post #37

As somebody who actually has first hand knowledge of this issue (I wrote and designed the tracking for a major iOS ad network), I can say that this is an incredibly misleading article. Here's what's actually going on: - Apple has deprecated the UDID. We're still allowed to use it for a while, but in the long term it's going away. - Apple has created a new identifier (the IFA), specifically for the use case of adverti…

>I expected better from Schneier.

What did you really expect? Him to buy into your weak hand-waving rationalization for this information exposure? Computer security is about what is possible for malicious actors, contractual "strings attached" and what you're "allowed to use it for" are next to irrelevant. If we could safely assume everyone is acting with the other's best interests in mind and respecting their privacy, computer security wouldn't even be a thing.

I get it that you were on the inside of one of these companies. Its really easy to have your perspective shifted when you live something for so long. It lets you draw conclusions based on your anecdotal experiences there. That's fine and all, but don't attack the guy for pointing out the real issues you've chosen to marginalize.