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More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

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Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#51

Post by esseph »

m-hodges wrote: post #19

In case anyone is actually interested in US gun ownership trends in the data — instead of just posting your prior-affirming vibe take — there is a lot of data.¹𝄒² ¹ https://news.gallup.com/poll/653621/gun-ownership-rates-spik... ² https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

Hmmm

Results Overall, 11% of respondents reported purchasing a gun since 1/1/20, 35% for the first time. Among recent purchasers, larger proportions of Democrat, Black, Asian, and Hispanic respondents were new gun owners than Republican or white respondents. Compared to prior owners, odds were 4.5-times higher that new gun owners’ recent purchase was motivated by racial violence and 3.2-times higher for political violence.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11378614/

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#52

Post by defrost »

sointeresting wrote: post #50
happytoexplain wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my experience at all - every time (possibly literally every single time ) I have heard a liberal say that we don't need guns to protect government tyranny, the argument is that you could not protect yourself from the government, not that you would not need to . That seems obvious to me, so I'm a little astonished at what you're saying.

The argument of their hypocracy stands though, doesn't it? If someone argues that people don't need guns because they would be ineffective against their government, it's strange that that person would buy a gun precisely to use against their government, right?

> it's strange that that person would buy a gun precisely to use against their government, right?

IF that was indeed what they said, what they believed, and what they actually did, sure.

You do seem to have fashioned a weak strawman here though.

This thread appears to be about liberals, PoC's, and LGBTQ's buying guns due to a perception of increased threat from Trump supporters, MAGA cos-players, newly empowere Groypers, etc.

Not (that I can read in the article) to use against their government.

So that's a double no to both your artifically posed questions.

Right?

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#53

Post by sointeresting »

defrost wrote: post #52
sointeresting wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument of their hypocracy stands though, doesn't it? If someone argues that people don't need guns because they would be ineffective against their government, it's strange that that person would buy a gun precisely to use against their government, right?

> it's strange that that person would buy a gun precisely to use against their government, right? IF that was indeed what they said, what they believed, and what they actually did, sure. You do seem to have fashioned a weak strawman here though. This thread appears to be about liberals, PoC's, and LGBTQ's buying guns due to a perception of increased threat from Trump supporters, MAGA cos-players, newly empowere Groyp…

It seems like you're unable to follow or understand the thread. Several posts up is this post:

>It is more like if you have to worry about masked goons breaking into your house and trying to kidnap you or your family members then maybe you can't trust the government either.

Referring to agencies such as ICE, I believe. Then the post I replied to said that it's not about trust, it's about effectiveness. Now you're telling me it's not about the government at all, but essentially for general purpose self defense, which still seems hypocritical coming from the gun control crowd. Also I'm not sure what an "artificially posed" question is.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#54

Post by deadbolt »

RickJWagner wrote: post #36
qwerpy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my social circle (mostly Asian tech employees in the PNW) there were many first-time gun purchases immediately after the social unrest in 2020. Hysterical social media posts about "the riots are going to come to the suburbs" factored into it. The fears ended up being completely overblown. Now there are different groups of people who are predicting violence and feeling the need to do something about it. Too early t…

The rooftop Koreans were awesome. Modern day cowboys.

Didn't they end up only killing other Koreans?

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#55

Post by kcplate »

happytoexplain wrote: post #43
kcplate wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? I thought the main leftward argument against the necessity of the second amendment was that we can now trust our government to not overstep its authority and people protecting themselves against tyranny was no longer needed?

That's not my experience at all - every time (possibly literally every single time ) I have heard a liberal say that we don't need guns to protect government tyranny, the argument is that you could not protect yourself from the government, not that you would not need to . That seems obvious to me, so I'm a little astonished at what you're saying.

This notion of an all powerful military and the futility of defense against tyranny assumes that every military person (if so ordered) would gladly take up arms against their own citizenry as well as every military weapon system would be utilized against the people.

What makes the 2nd a deterrent against tyranny is the notion that if things degraded to that level, the military would be compromised by the factions as well likely to the same level as the population is. That, in addition to a significant % of your population is also armed, would create the environment that a government could be changed.

Because the government is aware of this fact, it will keep itself in check.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#56

Post by kcplate »

krapp wrote: post #47
kcplate wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it was definitely a talking point of the mainstream left.

tbh "we can now trust our government to not overstep its authority and people protecting themselves against tyranny was no longer needed" sounds like an intentional misrepresentation of a leftist position than something many actual leftists would believe.

The political side that that often argues for more government in their political solutions seems to by default to trust the government “to not overstep its authority”?

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#57

Post by kcplate »

esseph wrote: post #49
kcplate wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it was definitely a talking point of the mainstream left.

The "mainstream left" isn't real, it's a manufactured facet. Look at the number of historically communist or socialist countries with an AK-47/74/AKM on their flag.

How often did those countries allow their citizens keep their private firearms after the revolution?

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#58

Post by happytoexplain »

kcplate wrote: post #33
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #16

Ratio of gun ownership per party has shifted maybe from 40:1 to 39.99:1. While this is real, by the numbers it's inconsequential and of no note. But it is a vibe shift. Both inconsequential. But: this is worth noting. And it's just cursed as frell that the left has seen such a shift that they abandon governance, abandon the state, feel the Dont Step On Me militarizing insanitude viruses that has afflicted & demented…

Perhaps it’s just my location in the country but virtually everyone I know is armed regardless of political leaning in my area and it’s been that way for at least the four decades I have lived here. You just assume it and it’s no big deal. Of course here left and right tend to socialize together here and no one seems to hung up on if someone disagrees politically. For instance, I’ve been to a neighbors house and dran…

I've been to places like that! And my microcosm of personal friends is certainly like that (sans political merchandise). Unfortunately, the opposite case is a much stronger tone-setter and cautionary prompt. E.g. to use a metaphor, a person considering home security is looking at how often break-ins happen - not how often break-ins don't happen.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#59

Post by defrost »

deadbolt wrote: post #54
RickJWagner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rooftop Koreans were awesome. Modern day cowboys.

Didn't they end up only killing other Koreans?

Unlikely (almost all the "rooftop koreans" had national service training in Korea) and unreported (that I could find)

  In the end, Chang said not a single person was shot and killed by the Korean shop owners — just warning shots to chase away potential looters and arsonists.
~ https://www.huffpost.com/entry/roof-koreans-meme-know-real-s...

Also, wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooftop_Koreans

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