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Maybe you’re not trying

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Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#51

[flagged]

> Also, people are made up of particles that behave deterministically. Agency is an illusion. I like to slap people talking this to my face. Why? I was predetermined to slap them, the universe was set up that way. But I had only one occasion to really do this. The guy was thinking about this for two days. And when I say about this every proponent of "Agency is an illusion" then has some cop-out about responsibility,…

"No agency" doesn't mean "no consequences". If there's an asteroid flying towards earth, we may blow it up, instead of going "well it's not the poor rocks' fault it's gonna wipe out humanity, so we should just let it."

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#52
It seems to me that frequently, to realize that your resources in a domain has improved, you need to heavily risk the very few resources that you know you have.

In the example the author gives, her husband did not have that inaccurate, yet reasonable perception, and only in hindsight does the author realize her own inaccurate perception.

I cannot recommend that readers take the author's advice to heart as carelessly as she presents it. There is some merit to it, but there are sometimes real consequences when you try when your perception was accurate that you shouldn't have, and you have carelessly misread your increase in capacity, especially if you are desperate for it.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, not everything is a competition that needs to be won.

If you want to stay the same and not become better at something, you are correct. Competition is many times about challening yourself, failing, learning from that failure, and eventually succeeding.

You do not have to compete with yourself, or anyone, to get better.

Getting better comes from collaborating:

- Being attentive to your practice (i.e. recording, going over your work, etc.)

- Asking, and taking the advice of other people in your field (i.e. find places where there are people older than you who have done the same tasks, and consult with them)

- Being exposed to diversity of thought (i.e. teams more diverse in culture, race, and gender, consistently come up with a better array of solutions — this directly benefits you, helps you think along alternative dimensions and perspectives, exposes errors you may have encoded)

- With art, taking on voluntary restrictions to inspire you — art prompts, game jams, etc.

Sure, some of these can be framed as competition — maybe you might frame being attentive to your practice as competing with your past self, and taking voluntary restrictions as competing with the others in the game jam or whatever — but I very, very much prefer to frame them as collaborating — in a solo practice session, you're collaborating with yourself to find the flaws and fix them, in a game jam session, you're collaborating with those around you to produce lots of interesting and good art.

In many cases, you literally cannot improve without depending on the advice of those around you — another perspective, a second pair of eyes, the well-worn advice of the 40yro burned out techies. Framing those as competition will actively just burn you out, in the end (or otherwise people will pick up on it and be less likely to help you, lol).

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#55
Great post!

I find that this happens when I want to do something The Right Way, but don’t have a clear path, nor the energy to figure one out.

For example I want a nice winter wardrobe, but first I have to figure out what I like, what is trendy, where to buy it, what will suit the weather. I am wholly unprepared for it. Suddenly it’s a whole ordeal, so I just wait.

In another category - art - I had to learn to be okay with suboptimal outcomes. Each attempt teaches you something, so to make good art, you have to make a lot of bad art first. Paper is cheap and making bad art is fun once you move past perfectionism.

Socialising is the same. You get better at it through practice. Practice is fun, it makes you do fun things and meet fun people.

With “shopping problems”, you are stuck with your bad purchases, your suboptimal wardrobe. Each iteration is expensive in time and money. So you try to get it right the first time. Cue weeks of research for something that is ultimately not that important. The worst is shopping problems that have an element of taste.

If someone knows a way to deal with this, I am listening.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if agency is an illusion, there's still a point in trying. Assuming determinism, whether or not those neurons fire in such a way depends on whether you believe "agency is an illusion, therefore there's no point in trying". And whether you believe that might depend on whether you read this, so consider yourself lucky.

> And whether you believe that might depend on whether you read this, so consider yourself lucky. See right there you're saying trying depends on something I don't control which is making my point for me.

I never refuted your hypothesis, I just pointed out the fact that the universe being deterministic has nothing to do with whether it's worth it for you to believe that you can achieve things and therefore try. Nor did I say that whether you believe it depends on something you can control. Assuming determinism, it's always worth it to believe that you can achieve things and try, even if it's as a result of me saying this.

Believing -> trying -> accomplishing

The arrows are causal links. Whether the state of believing is achieved through chance or choice is irrelevant.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#58
I've always noticed that when I'm giving advice to someone or trying to help out, it always feels their problem is easier than whatever problem I have. As someone with some anxiety around things like calling some company to get something done or asking a random stranger for some help in a store, I would gladly do it if it was to help someone else (family member or friend). But when it's for me I find it harder.

I wonder how much psychologically we can be more confident and less anxious when we're doing something for others vs ourselves..

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who would like to excuse my overeating on confirmed problems with blood sugar, I agree with you fully. We have different amount of willpower in different situations and in the same situation between different times of day. But we still have some agency, it's not fully predetermined. And like being overweight, training can help. I would even say that combating fat needs willpower and increases your availab…

That's not my position at all. Obviously you had no agency in your genetics. I assume you don't believe you had agency in pre-natal nutrition or the circumstance of your upbringing. The rest of your life is just reacting to things downstream from that with an algorithm based on your nature and your nurture. If it weren't for quantum effects you could model the outcome and it would be the same every time.

> That's not my position at all.

I would like to understand your position more. Most people believe that they have choice. They could for example do more work or lie on a couch. You mean they have no choice and whichever decision they took is not from their will, but only from their circumstances? I agree that a lot of the weights in such decision is a result of previous happenstances, but "no agency" model suggests to me that we can't make any serious changes in our life, because whatever happens, happens and maybe we were not destined to change our life. This further suggests: "why even try".

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, people are made up of particles that behave deterministically. Agency is an illusion. I like to slap people talking this to my face. Why? I was predetermined to slap them, the universe was set up that way. But I had only one occasion to really do this. The guy was thinking about this for two days. And when I say about this every proponent of "Agency is an illusion" then has some cop-out about responsibility,…

"No agency" doesn't mean "no consequences". If there's an asteroid flying towards earth, we may blow it up, instead of going "well it's not the poor rocks' fault it's gonna wipe out humanity, so we should just let it."

"No agency" for me means pretty much that. What does "no agency" mean for you?
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