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Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#51

Post by 0_____0 »

esperent wrote: post #30
0_____0 wrote: post #16

This is a heat pipe. A technology from the 60s. Your laptop almost certainly has heat pipes in it. They usually use alcohol rather than water as the phase change material though. The (relatively) novel thing is that it's packaged small enough to be in a phone. I suspect the only reason it hasn't been used in handhelds more is because the TDP of mobile processors wasn't high enough to warrant it.

Heat pipes are one dimensional (a pipe), vapor chambers are two dimensional (a square chamber). Most vapor chambers I've seen on GPUs have the chamber attached to lots of small heat pipes on the side though (they even note this in article, in case you feel like reading it). That said, I assume the main technical breakthrough here is in manufacturing, producing tiny chambers consistently in enough volume for iphones.

Any passive phase change thermal solution is doing the same thing - take thermal energy from one place, and distribute it for dissipation. My point is that the geometric configuration isn't that important, it's doing the same work the same way. Not really worth arguing about, I just suspect that the branding people love that they had a new buzzword in "vapor chamber" to bandy about.

I liked this article from 10 years ago that actually goes into detail about how Fujitsu actually constructed a super-thin heat pipe (really just a very long vapor chamber) https://spectrum.ieee.org/superslim-liquid-loop-will-keep-fu...

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#52

Post by cassianoleal »

cj wrote: post #49
ziml77 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose making a device that people wouldn't feel the need to put a case on? You could make the whole thing out of rubber but that's still going to take cosmetic damage that people want to protect the device from. You could make it easy to replace that rubber... but at what point is that not just functionally the same as a case?

> How do you propose making a device that people wouldn't feel the need to put a case on? If the screen were reasonably scratch + shatter proof, I think most people wouldn't feel the need to wear a case.

I don't use a case or screen protectors. My 15 Pro frequently falls on the floor. The back shattered on multiple occasions, but even then never became a cut hazard. The screen remains pristine.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#53

Post by vlovich123 »

jrowen wrote: post #43
orev wrote: post #36

Which most people are going to immediately cover with an insulating layer of plastic or silicone. At least the heat will be spread out from one spot (and into the battery?). All phone makers are doing what they can within the design constraints.

Why have none of the major players tried integrating a case? Making a ruggedized version? They could probably do a lot better and find ways to innovate with something integrated. Why do they ignore the fact that so many people use cases (and the market opportunity)? It's almost a defect at this point. Some people like the personalization but I think a lot of people just want something that won't break when you drop i…

Lots of reasons. The most obvious ones that come to mind:

1. People like a variety of custom cases that themselves have features (eg wallet cases random designs etc). If it’s built into the phone that customization capability is worse because you now have two layers of protection making for a very thick and heat-insulating design.

2. It’s valuable to have partners that make accessories for your device. If you kill that line of business for them, other things may go away and those partners will want to work with you less.

3. An integrated case will still suffer cosmetic damage. But now without the option to replace, you’re stuck with that damage.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#54

Post by steveBK123 »

cj wrote: post #32
Wistar wrote: post #3

Last night I encountered a 3 min+ ad on YT about the construction of the iPhone 17 Pro. A few seconds were devoted to the cooling system. I watched the whole thing. It was better than the video it interrupted. https://youtu.be/_-AS5DtDeqs?si=rTfubRDArVupqREt

Watching that video, the first thought I have is "So much engineering and I still need to buy a phone case with my new phone?" I'm guessing phone cases are still pretty much required if you drop your phone once or twice a month onto cement/asphalt/marble/etc from pocket height. I would be really curious to hear the internal debate at Apple wrt design tradeoffs + durability. E.g. how much of the iPhone design is only…

> I'm guessing phone cases are still pretty much required if you drop your phone once or twice a month onto cement/asphalt/marble/etc from pocket height.

I mean... yeah? What consumer tech is that resilient? Maybe put a lanyard on the your phone and attach it to your belt, I mean..

They could make a toughbook style phone for people with such habits, but engineering a mainstream device for such resiliency is going to be overkill for most users and cause a lot of tradeoffs in size/cost/features.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#55

Post by rz2k »

cj wrote: post #32
Wistar wrote: post #3

Last night I encountered a 3 min+ ad on YT about the construction of the iPhone 17 Pro. A few seconds were devoted to the cooling system. I watched the whole thing. It was better than the video it interrupted. https://youtu.be/_-AS5DtDeqs?si=rTfubRDArVupqREt

Watching that video, the first thought I have is "So much engineering and I still need to buy a phone case with my new phone?" I'm guessing phone cases are still pretty much required if you drop your phone once or twice a month onto cement/asphalt/marble/etc from pocket height. I would be really curious to hear the internal debate at Apple wrt design tradeoffs + durability. E.g. how much of the iPhone design is only…

The titanium iPhones, at least, are nearly impervious to scratches when dropped on concrete or asphalt from a reasonable height. I “scientifically” test this pretty often.

Because the iPhone 15 pro was significantly lighter than previous pro models, I wanted to avoid a case to get the most out of this improvement. However, I wouldn’t have even experimented with not using a case if it weren’t for the applecare+ plans that are reasonable. I’ve been surprised by the durability to the extent that I should probably discontinue the applecare+ plan.

The aluminum models might not be as durable. Compared to phones 20 or even 30 years ago that didn’t need a case, I suppose a significant difference is the density as much as the total weight or the hardness of the materials.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#56

Post by cherryteastain »

nicce wrote: post #40
orev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally in the subheading: > Apple joins Samsung and Google in managing heat

Usually it is sign for stability and usefulness if Apple adapts it. They rarely add something very new for mass production.

Heat pipes and vapour chambers are older than Apple

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#57

Post by instagib »

cj wrote: post #32
Wistar wrote: post #3

Last night I encountered a 3 min+ ad on YT about the construction of the iPhone 17 Pro. A few seconds were devoted to the cooling system. I watched the whole thing. It was better than the video it interrupted. https://youtu.be/_-AS5DtDeqs?si=rTfubRDArVupqREt

Watching that video, the first thought I have is "So much engineering and I still need to buy a phone case with my new phone?" I'm guessing phone cases are still pretty much required if you drop your phone once or twice a month onto cement/asphalt/marble/etc from pocket height. I would be really curious to hear the internal debate at Apple wrt design tradeoffs + durability. E.g. how much of the iPhone design is only…

If you want to do a trade in every 1, 2, or 3 years then scratches or damage to the phone can decrease the value on the old phone.

I tried rocking no case and broke the screen which isn’t a huge deal but required attention, downtime, and the phone didn’t work the same way after repair.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#58

Post by kyriakos »

bapak wrote: post #18
amelius wrote: post #10

Why the emphasis on Apple when Samsung was there first? It looks like the competition is making them sweat (pun intended).

Samsung is not Apple. Relatively no one cares about Samsung outside Korea.

I think you are exaggerating how much people care about apple outside US. Apple is popular but Samsung, Xiaomi etc are also very dominant in other markets.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#59

Post by deadbabe »

fooqux wrote: post #17
deadbabe wrote: post #6

I have an iPhone Air now and have no complaints about the heating. The thinness is worth the occasional heat and throttle down. Every time I pick up this phone, it just feels fantastic!

Serious question: how is the thinness providing value? Is it simply the feel?

Easier to slide into the back pocket of my jeans and it doesn’t bulge as much. It also just feels really good in your hands, great ergonomics.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#60

Post by lysace »

reaperducer wrote: post #31
lysace wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when I had the iPhone 5S (7.6 mm vs the 5.6 mm of the iPhone 17 Air): It provided value in terms of feel. It felt like a piece of art meeting cutting edge technology. It wasn't about showing off. It was also so light that it felt safe to use it without a protective case. And not that expensive.

Nothing feels better than the original iPhone. Solid, tactile, and just the right size. Mine finally got stuck in a boot loop earlier this year, but I keep it in my desk drawer, and pick it up occasionally. The mute switch (an actual switch, not a button) is still the best.

My original iPhone (bought in June 2007 for competetive research) has started swelling and won't boot up. Still keeping it. Maybe I should store it in a bucket of sand though.
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