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EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

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Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#51

Post by flumpcakes »

People are so emotive about this issue and the online safety act in the UK. They jump to conclusions that applied to any other issue would be conspiratorial.

It's not about "control" and "spying". The fact is it is policing that has been made extremely hard due to technology.

silk road was only busted because the guy had his http proxy responding on the VPS's IP and not just the tor eth. Silly mistake and unfathomably good luck that someone in the investigating team was just googling around.

The politicians are lay people, and only have one tool in their toolbox: laws. So every solution is a legal one.

"Sorry we can't catch the people sexually abusing one million children every year because they use a VPN." Solution? Create a law requiring VPNs to be registered to a user with their address. There's no conspiracy here - it's simple cause and effect. This is a contrived worst case example because this level of accountability? is not currently proposed.

I would prefer other solutions, but these solutions are firstly much easier for the politicians to understand and also much cheaper to implement and see results.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#52

Post by tietjens »

eqvinox wrote: post #46
tietjens wrote: post #29

What does this mean for `Datenschutz` in Germany? I can't imagine the courts would let this stand.

Datenschutz doesn't prevent court-ordered telecomms surveillance either. This would presumably fall in the same category. (Or in fact be unconstitutional, as BVerfG has already ruled several times regarding blanket data collection in other context.)

Ah, so my email address is highly private info. But all of my communications are not. Great.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#53

Post by selfunaware »

Yokolos wrote: post #3

I can't believe with our history involving the Third Reich and the Stasi that we aren't staunchly opposed. Especially with the impending political upheaval when AfD finally gets enough votes to form a ruling government. Our politicians are insanely shortsighted and somehow don't understand the danger they're enabling.

AfD is under the watch of spionage agencies but somehow they are THE risk, not the legacy parties and bureaucracy.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#54

Post by danieljacksonno »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #48
delusional wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU skepticism is at a 15 year low, and general approval hasnt been higher since 2007. Europeans in general like or is indifferent towards the EU.

> EU skepticism is at a 15 year low, and general approval hasnt been higher since 2007. My observations are different.

Your clique might be more skeptical. Statistics show the population at large is not.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#55

Post by yohannparis »

gadders wrote: post #8
Longhanks wrote: post #4

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

It's the EU way - "We will keep holding the vote until we get the result that we want."

And who runs the EU? The MEPs and members of the countries government. It's not like it's a different country imposing their way onto us. Talk/contacts your ministers and MEPs if you want your voice to be represented.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#56

Post by rollulus »

Quarrel wrote: post #16
Longhanks wrote: post #4

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

I'm not a fan, but in what was is this, or any other topic, undemocratic to have debates and votes on? The sanctions politicians should face for bringing up unpopular topics should be that they don't get voted for. > These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the most powerful punishments available. Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it.

> Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it.

How do I vote out hostile countries? I’m Dutch, what can I do with my vote to have effects on Denmark, which seems to be the biggest proponent of this BS?

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#57

Post by Stevvo »

Yokolos wrote: post #3

I can't believe with our history involving the Third Reich and the Stasi that we aren't staunchly opposed. Especially with the impending political upheaval when AfD finally gets enough votes to form a ruling government. Our politicians are insanely shortsighted and somehow don't understand the danger they're enabling.

You say this while Germany is actively supporting a genocide in Palestine. The world has really turned on its head.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#58

Post by Bairfhionn »

codeptualize wrote: post #26

One interesting line in the proposal: > Detection will not apply to accounts used by the State for national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes; If it's all very safe and accurate, why is this exception necessary? Doesn't this say either that it's not secure, or that there is a likely hood that there will be false positives that will be reviewed? If they have it all figured out, this exc…

The exclusion includes politicians because there would suddenly be a paper trail. Especially in the EU there were lots of suddenly lost messages.

Security is just the scapegoat excuse.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#59

Post by tonyhart7 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #15
justinclift wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That approach has spectacularly backfired for the UK, as they used to do the same thing too. ;)

What do you mean by backfire?

as another comment suggest "A massive unrest and protests."

but not for chat control but another things, they have going much worse

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#60

Post by littlecranky67 »

Can someone please explain to me how that law will prevent anything or anybody from encrypted messaging, if I can just whip up a website and use javascript plus websockets/webrtc to implement encrypted chat? Like, yes, you can prevent the FANANG from implementing it, but criminals will just use the secure one...
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