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EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

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Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That approach has spectacularly backfired for the UK, as they used to do the same thing too. ;)

UK is much worse than EU in terms of privacy and encryption.

It will not be if chat control passes, and I am not sure it was true most of the time before (there was no significant change between Brexit and the Online Safety Act)

There were similar problems in areas other than privacy and encryption, or indeed technology.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#42
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the EU way - "We will keep holding the vote until we get the result that we want."

> It's the EU way - "We will keep holding the vote until we get the result that we want." Exactly. There is a reason why more and more EU-skeptical movements gain traction in various EU countries.

EU skepticism is at a 15 year low, and general approval hasnt been higher since 2007.

Europeans in general like or is indifferent towards the EU.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#43
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it. OK. How do I vote out Ursula vd Leyen?

Next European Parliament election will be in 2029. Edit: there was a copypaste of voting requirements here, from https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/voting-ri... . This is apparently wrong; you can also vote if you're not residing in the EU, only EU citizen. (I thought this was the case, and that link not saying that made me suspicious.) How it is possible that they've put up incorrect information on v…

I was talking about voting for the position held by Ursula, the president of EU commission, not the EU parliamentary elections.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#44

What does this mean for `Datenschutz` in Germany? I can't imagine the courts would let this stand.

> What does this mean for `Datenschutz` in Germany?

Datenschutz - Schmatenschutz.

"Datenschutz" is something that politicians talk about in their "Sonntagsreden" [Sunday sermons; a term hard to translate into English]. During the rest of the week, the politicians pass laws to gouge out civil liberties (because of "think of the children", "terrorists", "child abusers", "right-wing movements" - whatever is opportune in the current political climate).

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#45
post #3

I can't believe with our history involving the Third Reich and the Stasi that we aren't staunchly opposed. Especially with the impending political upheaval when AfD finally gets enough votes to form a ruling government. Our politicians are insanely shortsighted and somehow don't understand the danger they're enabling.

You see, we the people are staunchly opposed. But the interests of our political leaders (we all know what 'leader' translates to) do not align with out interests. So ...

The problem is that this is not a party issue. This is a leadership issue. Power corrupts. The only way out of his is a massive overhaul of the political system that makes 'professional politicians' a thing of the past.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#46

What does this mean for `Datenschutz` in Germany? I can't imagine the courts would let this stand.

Datenschutz doesn't prevent court-ordered telecomms surveillance either. This would presumably fall in the same category. (Or in fact be unconstitutional, as BVerfG has already ruled several times regarding blanket data collection in other context.)

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#47

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

Democracy is incompatible with freedom by definition, it's the dictatorship of the majority over the minority.

Especially in a time where controlling public opinion is just a matter of running targeted ad campaigns on social medias and buying newspapers and tv stations.

If we like freedom we need to get rid of power centralisation, as much as possible, and give back the power to the individual by removing as many laws as possible and relying on privatisation and decentralisation.

But there is no one left to fight in the western world, everybody is glued to their smartphone and we're doomed to become the next China.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the EU way - "We will keep holding the vote until we get the result that we want." Exactly. There is a reason why more and more EU-skeptical movements gain traction in various EU countries.

EU skepticism is at a 15 year low, and general approval hasnt been higher since 2007. Europeans in general like or is indifferent towards the EU.

> EU skepticism is at a 15 year low, and general approval hasnt been higher since 2007.

My observations are different.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People were told the lie that without the EU there will be war again. Like the economic stagnation and decline of Europe is somehow the final solution and the end of history.

You don't have to convince me. You have to convince people who will immediately reject anything negative about EU, even here on HN (see the coming downvotes).

EU is not enough. I'm sometimes not happy with the decision taken by governments in France, so what really has to happen is HauteGaronnExit, where my departement is freed from the influence of borders decided in a Revolution two centuries ago, of which I was never explicitly asked to approve.

And, come to think of it, I don't like all the decisions taken by the departement either. Surely things will work great when my street is responsible for the electrical grid, immigration or international commerce.

And when I say "my street", I obviously mean "my half of the street". I'm not against odd-numbered houses "per se", but, you know...

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#50
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it. OK. How do I vote out Ursula vd Leyen?

She was elected by the European parliament. As an EU citizen, you elect that one.

after how many layers of voting does democracy just becomes plain oligarchy?
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