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Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

lttlabs.com

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Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#51

Post by stoltzmann »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #42
alex_f_k wrote: post #18

From lttlabs: > The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification From the verge [0], 2 months ago: > When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before…

Seems Nintendo has good reasons not to support it with 3rd party devices: Their own dock has active cooling, so with generic dongles the switch wouldn't be able to enter the docked performance mode (or have to throttle down pretty soon) and would have to output a blurry mess to 4k screens. Not a great user experience.

I would say that not having any video output is a worse user experience than having blurry video output.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#52

Post by crote »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #42
alex_f_k wrote: post #18

From lttlabs: > The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification From the verge [0], 2 months ago: > When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before…

Seems Nintendo has good reasons not to support it with 3rd party devices: Their own dock has active cooling, so with generic dongles the switch wouldn't be able to enter the docked performance mode (or have to throttle down pretty soon) and would have to output a blurry mess to 4k screens. Not a great user experience.

Sure, but what about 3rd party docks which do have adequate cooling? And how is it a good user experience to just silently refuse to work?

If Nintendo genuinely cared about experience they'd just follow the standard and work with any dock, then pop up a notification if it notices that the device is overheating - perhaps even with a "We recommend the official dock" text.

The current behaviour is completely unacceptable and needlessly user-hostile. There's no way around it: their USB-C implementation is broken.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#54

Post by whatevaa »

notrealyme123 wrote: post #23
alex_f_k wrote: post #18

From lttlabs: > The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification From the verge [0], 2 months ago: > When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before…

At least on the video they made it quite clear that they assumed thant Nintendo did it on purpose, but they did not have enough proof to actually say it. So instead they sad "Nintendo stopped early with developing compatibility"

They had to tip toe around this to avoid lawsuits. In practice, they made it quite clear they think this is on purpose.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#55

Post by whatevaa »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #42
alex_f_k wrote: post #18

From lttlabs: > The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification From the verge [0], 2 months ago: > When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before…

Seems Nintendo has good reasons not to support it with 3rd party devices: Their own dock has active cooling, so with generic dongles the switch wouldn't be able to enter the docked performance mode (or have to throttle down pretty soon) and would have to output a blurry mess to 4k screens. Not a great user experience.

Please don't shill and try to find straw man arguments. Plenty of 3rd party solutions can be better than first party and cost just as much. It's not just cheap junk.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#56

Post by KeplerBoy »

crote wrote: post #52
KeplerBoy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems Nintendo has good reasons not to support it with 3rd party devices: Their own dock has active cooling, so with generic dongles the switch wouldn't be able to enter the docked performance mode (or have to throttle down pretty soon) and would have to output a blurry mess to 4k screens. Not a great user experience.

Sure, but what about 3rd party docks which do have adequate cooling? And how is it a good user experience to just silently refuse to work? If Nintendo genuinely cared about experience they'd just follow the standard and work with any dock, then pop up a notification if it notices that the device is overheating - perhaps even with a "We recommend the official dock" text. The current behaviour is completely unacceptabl…

I agree that their behavior is user-hostile, but doing it their way gets rid of all of the ambiguity involved with USB C.

I kind of understand why they would rather break their USBC support intentionally and make it very clear that video out is only happening with their dock. Especially considering their audiences.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#57

Post by whatevaa »

wickedsight wrote: post #39
yuiegi wrote: post #33

Back in COVID times, when I had all the time in the world, my Switch got bricked after I charged it using my laptop charger. Nintendo refused to honor its warranty, citing some mumbo jumbo about proprietary USB-C hardware. Fortunately, we have pretty good consumer protection laws here in Australia By the end of an entire two month saga, they sent me a brand new Switch. I always did think it was odd that a USB-C cable…

It's not that strange. USB-C is a plug, not everyone who implements the plug also implements it correctly. Some chargers with a USB-C Plug might just send a fixed voltage over the cable, rather then implementing the protocols. I'm not saying that's the case for you, but USB-C is a minefield and I've seen some weird things happen with USB-C plugs.

No, usb-c is a protocol too. Those devices (includinf switch charger) are garbage. Worst case it should just not charge, not damage something.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#58

Post by darkwater »

franky47 wrote: post #22
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://superuser.com/a/1773195 > Any DRP port must have pull-down 5k1 resistors on CC wires (as a sink), AND 10-22-56k pull-ups (as provider), but not at the same time. The DRP then alternates the sink advertising (5k1 pull-downs) with pull-ups (source advertising) about 10 to 20 times per second. > If another DRP is connected, they both will toggle their advertising until a correct (pull-up - pull-down…

A protocol designed on who wins an race condition? That's wild.

What are the alternatives, for a mass market standard like USB used literally by everything out there nowadays? Unplug it and plug it again until it works it's easier for everyone that going to some obscure menu (although maybe smartphones/laptop/console could just display a modal "do you want to charge or be charged?")

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#59

Post by crote »

franky47 wrote: post #22
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://superuser.com/a/1773195 > Any DRP port must have pull-down 5k1 resistors on CC wires (as a sink), AND 10-22-56k pull-ups (as provider), but not at the same time. The DRP then alternates the sink advertising (5k1 pull-downs) with pull-ups (source advertising) about 10 to 20 times per second. > If another DRP is connected, they both will toggle their advertising until a correct (pull-up - pull-down…

A protocol designed on who wins an race condition? That's wild.

It works surprisingly well in practice. The key thing to remember is that you rarely connect identical devices together.

A laptop and a power bank both support both modes, but the laptop will have a "prefer sink" policy and the power bank will have a "prefer source" policy. As long as you don't connect two laptops or two power banks, it'll work out just fine.

Moreover, it has an override mechanism in case you do connect two identical devices. If you do connect two laptops together for data transferring, the OS should be able to let the user override the power flow direction - or even disable charging altogether.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#60

Post by bzzzt »

bubblebeard wrote: post #27

Just one more reason not to buy a Switch 2. Seriously, Nintendo has become worse than Apple when it comes to treating their customers. I own hundreds of Nintendo games and every console they ever made, sometimes in multiples. But when I saw of all the shit they were trying to pull with the Switch 2 I decided I was done with that company for good.

Nintendo was and is primarily a toy company. The deal is if you buy their stuff you get entertainment. You're pretending it's a general purpose computer to make a point about interoperability, but it's neither. What kind of 'shit' do they pull with Switch 2 they already didn't with Switch 1? Both are expensive DRM locked game devices, Switch 2 is just a bit faster.
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