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Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

lttlabs.com

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Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#21

Post by red369 »

franky47 wrote: post #5

I own a Switch 1, and the other day I wanted to play on the train, but the battery was low. I figured "no problem, I can connect it to my laptop and let it charge off is battery". Nope. The MacBook Pro started charging off the Switch instead.

I was really excited when I learned that unplugging the cable, waiting some short period of time and plugging it back in, triggers a power-role swap.

I've only tried it out on one occasion, and I'm not clear on the delay, or whether both ends need to be disconnected or only one. I was a little surprised it isn't talked about more.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#22

Post by franky47 »

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12
scottapotamas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For two DRP (dual role) devices connected to each other, I believe in a default case the one that happens to advertise as a source first just becomes one. The standard allows for a role swap at any point while connected, and if that’s triggered will be dependent on the firmware/config on one or both ends. There’s probably more nuance hiding in the real world hardware too.

According to https://superuser.com/a/1773195 > Any DRP port must have pull-down 5k1 resistors on CC wires (as a sink), AND 10-22-56k pull-ups (as provider), but not at the same time. The DRP then alternates the sink advertising (5k1 pull-downs) with pull-ups (source advertising) about 10 to 20 times per second. > If another DRP is connected, they both will toggle their advertising until a correct (pull-up - pull-down…

A protocol designed on who wins an race condition? That's wild.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#23

Post by notrealyme123 »

alex_f_k wrote: post #18

From lttlabs: > The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification From the verge [0], 2 months ago: > When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before…

At least on the video they made it quite clear that they assumed thant Nintendo did it on purpose, but they did not have enough proof to actually say it.

So instead they sad "Nintendo stopped early with developing compatibility"

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#24

Post by stephen_g »

scottapotamas wrote: post #9
parhamn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered how this works (and who wins).

For two DRP (dual role) devices connected to each other, I believe in a default case the one that happens to advertise as a source first just becomes one. The standard allows for a role swap at any point while connected, and if that’s triggered will be dependent on the firmware/config on one or both ends. There’s probably more nuance hiding in the real world hardware too.

They can also prefer one role, with a mechanism called Try.SNK and Try.SRC (‘try sink’ / ‘try source’).

Basically DRPs toggle back and forth between sink and source until they happen to match up (one side has switched to source and one to sink). If it doesn’t prefer to do the role it’s resolved to randomly, it can switch to the other way and wait a bit - if the other side is fine with it then it will switch too and everyone is happy, if not you can switch back.

We use this for a device that can on-charge a device when it has external power plugged in (in which case we prefer source role) but not when running on battery (in which case we prefer sink but don’t actually pull any power because it’s self powered).

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#26

Post by stephen_g »

red369 wrote: post #21
franky47 wrote: post #5

I own a Switch 1, and the other day I wanted to play on the train, but the battery was low. I figured "no problem, I can connect it to my laptop and let it charge off is battery". Nope. The MacBook Pro started charging off the Switch instead.

I was really excited when I learned that unplugging the cable, waiting some short period of time and plugging it back in, triggers a power-role swap. I've only tried it out on one occasion, and I'm not clear on the delay, or whether both ends need to be disconnected or only one. I was a little surprised it isn't talked about more.

Is that for a specific device? For standard dual-role USB-C devices they do a negotiation that is partially based on chance which power role they land on (but they can have policy that strongly prefers one role over the other).

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#27

Post by bubblebeard »

Just one more reason not to buy a Switch 2. Seriously, Nintendo has become worse than Apple when it comes to treating their customers. I own hundreds of Nintendo games and every console they ever made, sometimes in multiples. But when I saw of all the shit they were trying to pull with the Switch 2 I decided I was done with that company for good.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#28

Post by masklinn »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #7
snailmailman wrote: post #6

Interesting. I saw some of their video about this the other day. The video gives the impression that Nintendo is intentionally not supporting external monitors that aren’t the official switch dock. But the conclusion on this article seems to lean more towards that it could be a mistake or bug. I guess that might be the case - didn’t they screw up USB-C on the switch 1? I know it’s an incredibly complex standard. I gu…

The ltt video didn’t suggest it was intentional, it was careful not to. But Nintendo were certainly aware of it before release.

The video did very much suggest it was intentional but did so implicitly.

It explicitly stopped short of explicitly suggesting it due to a lack of evidence.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#29

Post by toast0 »

franky47 wrote: post #22
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://superuser.com/a/1773195 > Any DRP port must have pull-down 5k1 resistors on CC wires (as a sink), AND 10-22-56k pull-ups (as provider), but not at the same time. The DRP then alternates the sink advertising (5k1 pull-downs) with pull-ups (source advertising) about 10 to 20 times per second. > If another DRP is connected, they both will toggle their advertising until a correct (pull-up - pull-down…

A protocol designed on who wins an race condition? That's wild.

Ethernet has been doing this kind of thing for four decades. With only two nodes and short cables, you'll rapidly converge.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#30

Post by dagmx »

Gigachad wrote: post #13
snailmailman wrote: post #6

Interesting. I saw some of their video about this the other day. The video gives the impression that Nintendo is intentionally not supporting external monitors that aren’t the official switch dock. But the conclusion on this article seems to lean more towards that it could be a mistake or bug. I guess that might be the case - didn’t they screw up USB-C on the switch 1? I know it’s an incredibly complex standard. I gu…

The Switch 1 had more of an excuse since it was released just as USB-C, particularly the more advanced parts like video out and PD were still very new. And the hardware was likely designed long beforehand. The Switch 2 came out in a world with widespread standards compliant USB-C.

I feel like that’s a significant retcon.

Switch 1 was released in 2017. PD 1.0 was 2013 , and display port out was 2014. Both were supported by numerous devices by the time the switch 1 was out.

Granted they really wanted hdmi alt mode which was 2016 but the switch 1 doesn’t even support display port out which could have been coupled with a converter in the dock.

The simpler reason is that Nintendo both cheaps out on parts and has no incentive to increase compatibility. The number of users who care is not worth it for Nintendo to care, and they’re not afoul of any regulations.

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