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Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#51

Post by 3036e4 »

lxgr wrote: post #14
kvdveer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way laws against online piracy are enforced: attack the infrastructure. AdBlock Plus is being attacked right now. If distributing this software is made illegal, all blockers will vanish from the addon stores, and only very tech savvy users will have palatable Internet.

Your comment just made me realize how easy it would actually be for a court to implement such a ban these days: They could simply require Apple to not ship a content blocking API anymore in their jurisdiction. Thanks to Apple's ban of third-party browsers, that would be enough. On Android, the situation is slightly better, since browsers can be sideloaded, but ad blockers would quickly become a niche phenomenon.

Easy to forget, but some of us still browse the web on laptops and desktop computers where users still have slightly more choice when it comes to what software to use. For now. Of course eventually Google or someone else will manage to spread something like Web Environment Integrity Checks, and then things will become a lot messier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#52

Post by anthk »

badestrand wrote: post #41
VonTum wrote: post #6

Who could possibly be in favor of this? Like sure industry lobbying is strong but could any politician really argue they're acting in the interest of their constituents with this?

Traditional news media and print media are really strong in Germany (and for example Spain). They also made laws happen that limit how Google can link to news sites to prevent Google News from stealing readers. And they tried to make Google pay each time a user clicks a link that leads to a German news site. Also there are surcharges on printers (around $50 or so per piece), laptops etc because you might copy copyrig…

And yet, Dillo, Lynx, Links, and services like gemi://gemi.dev work perfectly fine.

The same with hosts files: https://github.com/stevenblack/hosts

Good luck banning Unix config files. My machine, my rules.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#53

Post by davorak »

Vinnl wrote: post #31
kstrauser wrote: post #26

A friend raised what I consider a very valid point, that ad blockers are assistive technology for people with ADHD. They prevent the web from being an unusable mess of shiny distraction. And as such, in America, blocking ad blockers is a violation of the ADA. I’m being completely serious here and so is he. I can barely use the web without ad blockers. They make it possible for me to participate in online life. Remove…

Yeah, that's also the main warning from the blog: the reasoning here is that adjusting how the website code executes on your computer is copyright infringement. The effects of that would go way beyond just adblockers.

> adjusting how the website code executes on your computer is copyright infringement.

I would be interested in how German law works to make this so, IANAL but pretty sure USA copy right law does not work that way. Modification for personal use is normally going to be 100% acceptable under USA copyright law. The DMCA Anti-Circumvention is one exception I know to this but it was and is a big deal for being an exception.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#54

Post by anthk »

Vinnl wrote: post #31
kstrauser wrote: post #26

A friend raised what I consider a very valid point, that ad blockers are assistive technology for people with ADHD. They prevent the web from being an unusable mess of shiny distraction. And as such, in America, blocking ad blockers is a violation of the ADA. I’m being completely serious here and so is he. I can barely use the web without ad blockers. They make it possible for me to participate in online life. Remove…

Yeah, that's also the main warning from the blog: the reasoning here is that adjusting how the website code executes on your computer is copyright infringement. The effects of that would go way beyond just adblockers.

So, running old browsers with no JS support it's illegal too? OTOH, there's even gopher://taz.de in Germany.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#55

Post by anthk »

SpaceManNabs wrote: post #44
badestrand wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional news media and print media are really strong in Germany (and for example Spain). They also made laws happen that limit how Google can link to news sites to prevent Google News from stealing readers. And they tried to make Google pay each time a user clicks a link that leads to a German news site. Also there are surcharges on printers (around $50 or so per piece), laptops etc because you might copy copyrig…

anti free speech stuff like this is why i only bring burner phones into europe.

That's just Germany. Europe is not a country.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#56

Post by kstrauser »

brookst wrote: post #50
kstrauser wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not, nor am I, but I don’t see a reason you and I shouldn’t get the same legal protections as other groups. What about blind people who pipe the output of a screen through text-to-speech? Or people with epilepsy who can’t use flashy screens? Or someone who needs to enlarge print or change its contrast? There are plenty of medical reasons to need to alter their browser presentations.

IANAL, but the critical thing to know is that the ADA doesn’t mean that every assistive technology is mandated / required. Wheelchair users would benefit from dedicated elevators where their face is not butt-level with strangers in tight spaces; the ADA doesn’t mean not mandate this accommodation.

Is there an alternative technology that allows people to use websites without flashing ads?

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#57

Post by sneak »

drunner wrote: post #11
sneak wrote: post #2

Under a strict reading of copyright law, this actually makes sense. The problem is that the fundamental concept of IP is nonsensical and insane. When applied rationally, it will of course result in wacky results like this.

How does it make sense? If I buy a book I'm entitled to rip out pages and black marker words. What's the difference to removing text or images of my choice while viewing a website?

It’s an unauthorized modification (and production of a derivative work) of a copyrighted work.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#58

Post by 3036e4 »

kstrauser wrote: post #48
3036e4 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is not how copyright works, at least not in this country, but probably not in many countries. You buy a book, not a license. Copyright luckily isn't an unlimited right to dictate exactly how a work is used. Ebooks sadly are different. I only buy DRM-free ebooks that grant me rights similar to what always exists for printed books, but that sadly limits what ebooks I can buy quite significantly.

You cannot coerce me into believing that buying an ebook is any different than buying a physical copy. Either way I’m exchanging money for the right to possess a copy of it. Legal fictions be damned, if I pay for it, I own it, and can do whatever I want with it short of distributing copies of it to others.

It's because they managed to get DRM-circumvention into copyright laws in most countries, so they just have to put some kind of DRM in the ebook and then they can claim that any attempt to use the ebook outside of the official software is DRM-circumvention and therefore illegal, even if you are not necessarily infringing on any copyright per se.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#59

Post by trenchpilgrim »

sneak wrote: post #57
drunner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it make sense? If I buy a book I'm entitled to rip out pages and black marker words. What's the difference to removing text or images of my choice while viewing a website?

It’s an unauthorized modification (and production of a derivative work) of a copyrighted work.

Which is perfectly legal to make under existing law.
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