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China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

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Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#51

Post by JumpCrisscross »

endianswap wrote: post #9
blargthorwars wrote: post #3

And it does so on seas that aren't even remotely close to China. They're looting the entire Pacific Ocean.

They export tens of billions of dollars in seafood every year, why does it matter where they're fishing if they're selling it worldwide?

> why does it matter where they're fishing if they're selling it worldwide?

Regulation. Chinese boats fish in ways we block our own boats from. Those exports thus represent a regulatory workaround, victim the oceans, and a tool with which buyers can demand reciprocal regulation.

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#52

Post by savanaly »

mlyle wrote: post #17
savanaly wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right, but it's certainly not a "duh". Consumer surplus exists in addition to producer surplus.

Externalities also exist-- funny how the dead seafloor and collapsing local fisheries don’t show up in the export statistics.

I would agree, but that's beside the point I was making.

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#53

Post by WillAdams »

My grandfather lived in a time when commercial hunting was outlawed.

I worry that I live in a time when commercial fishing is not sufficiently regulated so that rather than being outlawed, it will simply become infeasible, with the attendant knock-on affects of countries which depend on the oceans for a significant portion of their protein.

There are now a greater tonnage of ships in the ocean than bony fish:

https://what-if.xkcd.com/33/

What will be the next marker to be dropped?

Makes one wish that we could manage something like to Hal Clement's "Raindrop":

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/939760.Music_of_Many_Sph...

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#54

Post by abdullahkhalids »

tedk-42 wrote: post #34
Nursie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tasmania produces a lot of caged salmon. It’s bad for the salmon (in terms of animal welfare) and it’s wrecking the local ecosystems. It’s not any sort of panacea. We need to stop destroying ocean ecosystems, not just shift the damage around. Overfishing of wild stock, habitat destruction through bottom-trawling and intensive fish farming all need to be properly looked at.

> We need to stop destroying ocean ecosystems, not just shift the damage around. Overfishing of wild stock, habitat destruction through bottom-trawling and intensive fish farming all need to be properly looked at. You criticise, yet don't provide any suitable recommendations or alternatives. People like to eat fish and have done so since the beginning of our species.

The solution to overfishing, over consumption of fossil fuels, over consumption of beef etc is all the same in the current system. Impose appropriate taxes that adequately capture the impact of the negative externalities.

Living in unsustainable ways is ... well not sustainable.

If people have liked to eat fish since the start, then maybe we should leave some for the next generations.

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#55

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

One particular fishing tactic by Chinese fisherboats is horrendous.

They will approach a protected ecosystem, which is thriving with fish like that of the galapagos islands, for example. They will hang out right at the limit of the maritime nautical border with the native country.

Then they will shut down naval GPS transponders (disabling of AIS - Automatic Identification System) and during the night, all at the same time, cross into the country's maritime space and quickly get out before its caught by the local patrols. [1][2]

This happens a lot with smaller countries which cannot fight back.

There are other techniques that haven't been yet discussed, like, altering vessel measurements (Changing draft and length to obscure activity, e.g., during transshipment or EEZ entry) , and meeting with refrigerated cargo ships to transfer catch which is likely illegal.

These are the only ways they can sustain a 44% of fishing worldwide. If they did this in their home turf, their waters would be empty of life

[1] https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/pesca-ile...

[2] https://usa.oceana.org/press-releases/oceana-analysis-shows-...

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#57

Post by dottjt »

cavisne wrote: post #45
dottjt wrote: post #38

I find it interesting how China is so keen to develop EVs as a way to get away from oil dependency, yet other areas of their economy aren't treated with the same urgency.

Doesn't seem that confusing, they import most of their hydrocarbons so its a domestic security risk if/when they invade Taiwan. The US navy can blockade oil tankers but they arent going to be chasing fishing vessels around the ocean trying to stop fishing.

What I'm describing is much broader: Food security i.e. running out of fish to extract from the seas.

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#58

Post by chvid »

maxglute wrote: post #41

Another year another DC China IUU "the worst" propaganda piece, except this time more stupid - already inflated esimate of PRC DWF fleet last year was 18000... now 32000 kek. It's hilarious to see PRC DWF inflation from 3000 in 2020 to 6000 to 18000 and now 32000 in 5 years. PRC ship building is incredible, but damn /s. PRC wild catch was like 12m in 2020... and 15m in 2024... but somehow catching that extra 3m requi…

Yes. It is higly manipulative. But people are licking it up.

It is kinda scary how effective these Washington think tanks are manufacturing consent for a naval confrontation with China.

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#59

Post by fendy3002 »

ashoeafoot wrote: post #26
pen2l wrote: post #7

Bottom trawling in particular seems horrendous. Here is Attenborough narrating about the horrors of it and how it affects the ocean floor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXp3jo_uGOQ

Concrete pylons with blades?

just a concrete blocks is enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7AnKcMVEio

ignore the marble sclupture, it's only a few of them deployed for attraction and attention.

Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide

#60

Post by squidsoup »

kingstnap wrote: post #27

I wonder about engineering yourself a productive fishery instead of exploiting wild stocks. Most of the ocean is practically a desert. The only productive places are near land, where deep water up wells and returns sunken nutrients back to the surface. I'm sure we could study and engineer some sort of nutrient dumping and cycling scheme. I bet you could make vastly more food while leaving a lot of ocean alone.

The recent David Attenborough documentary Ocean suggested that the Papahānaumokuākea Marine conservation area off the coast of Hawaii had contributed to abundant fishing stock outside the reserve. It was suggested that if we reserved 30% of the ocean, we would see a huge increase in fisheries the world over.

Another recent discovery is that although we've damaged our fisheries significantly, oceanic ecosystems apparently recover much faster than terrestrial ecosystems if left untouched, within several years.

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