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Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

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51–60 of 269 posts

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#51

So happy my union managed to ban broad non-competes in my country ~8 years ago. Now it needs to be very specific if they want to enforce it (not just "development work in the same industry" which most contracts had back when I graduated), only applicable for maximum a year, and they have to pay your salary for the time they stop you working somewhere else.

[flagged]

I don't care about the free market, I just want food and shelter for my family.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#52

So happy my union managed to ban broad non-competes in my country ~8 years ago. Now it needs to be very specific if they want to enforce it (not just "development work in the same industry" which most contracts had back when I graduated), only applicable for maximum a year, and they have to pay your salary for the time they stop you working somewhere else.

[flagged]

Care to back up that definitive statement? Or is it just a pavlovian reflex?

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#53

So happy my union managed to ban broad non-competes in my country ~8 years ago. Now it needs to be very specific if they want to enforce it (not just "development work in the same industry" which most contracts had back when I graduated), only applicable for maximum a year, and they have to pay your salary for the time they stop you working somewhere else.

[flagged]

How is a union any different in that respect than a corporation? I mean on a theoretical level. A true free-market firm would just be an association of individuals making individually negotiated transactions, with no employee-employer relationship, and no coordination on the side of purchasing labor. Of course that's very inefficient outside of pure theory. A corporation acts as a coordinating body that collectively negotiates the purchasing of labor contracts, and a union collectively negotiates on the selling side.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#54
post #45

I think the Chinese law is effective in this regard: in order to maintain any non-competition agreement, the company must continue to pay you a monthly compensation amount equal to 30% of your total monthly income when you were at the company. Whenever the payment stops, the non-competition agreement is automatically void.

can you choose to refuse these payments to avoid the responsibility?

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#55
post #31
post #22

> They argue it would be impossible for you to work elsewhere in this industry during your entire career without violating confidentiality with the technical and business instincts you bring to that domain In that case you need to ask for a lifetime worth of salary, including growth from being in position to be put in escrow before you sign the dotted line. Otherwise they can hire you and fire you immediately and you…

Realistically, most places ban ‘unconscionable’ contract clauses, either explicitly or by making them unenforceable. At least in theory, any judge that saw clauses like that should throw it out for that reason alone in those jurisdictions.

Precisely. And, at least in the US, any contract which makes it impossible for a worker to take a new job in their field is extremely likely to be found unconscionable. It doesn't matter whether the contract is cast as a non-compete or as a NDA; if its effect is to say "you must work for us, or not at all", it's unlikely to hold up.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#56

Have an employment attorney always look over said agreements before signing. A local acquaintance who did work for an MSP had said MSP try such a ploy, only for the employment attorney to sue and get it thrown out as unreasonable and unenforceable. Never, EVER sign a contract without reading it first, and having your lawyer review it.

I understand that your advice is in good faith - but if we touch grass for a second, only the tiniest fraction of even professional workers have a lawyer at hand. And one that specializes in contract law? Even less.

It’s not that difficult to have legal help with your contract. Call your local bar association and ask for an employment law specialist. It will likely cost a couple hundred for them to review your contract.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#57

It's funny how states like Washington are notorious for enforceable non-competes, to be "business friendly". Meanwhile California bans non-competes, and its GDP is 4th largest in the world if it were a country! "incumbent friendly" vs "startup friendly"

WA is busy losing its way on taxation vs value provided for taxes paid and reporting burden. so imo these IP issues are almost second order effects at this point. i personally expect a continued exodus over some of the latest tax hikes for example taxing cap gains beyond a certain amount at an additional 7%. as if niit was not bad enough. if residents could at least see some value from these added taxes maybe it could be something. also the estste tax there kicks in quickly and has hidden gotchas even for people who no longer live there.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#58

What exactly should one be on the lookout for? Practically every company has an IP confidentiality agreement.

Yeah, good luck being the odd one out who wants special individualized contract. This might work for unicorn value level employees that are poached from one FANG to another but not for the average Joe.

In my experience, as a normal non-unicorn employee at a large corp, I was able to have my contract modified. It required advice from an employment law lawyer that cost a few hundred dollars and a couple emails with the company’s general counsel.

You can change these contracts. Hiring people is difficult and once the company has made that decision they don’t want to lose you over a contract clause.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#59
post #34

In some countries that's illegal. So when presented with a contract that contains such claims, I have 2 options: 1) ask them to remove it... and so I risk not getting the job 2) don't say anything, and sign it If I'm really interested in the job, I'll go for option 2 because I know they cannot enforce such claims, so I'll be fine.

i personally consider bad legal clauses in employment contracts a seriously negative sign about the employer. if they’re trying to pull that sort of thing at hiring, what are they going to try to do later when you’re fully committed?? is executive leadership simply unaware or do they condone that sort of thing??

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#60
post #45

I think the Chinese law is effective in this regard: in order to maintain any non-competition agreement, the company must continue to pay you a monthly compensation amount equal to 30% of your total monthly income when you were at the company. Whenever the payment stops, the non-competition agreement is automatically void.

Would be very interested to read more about that. Do you have a link?
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