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Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

arijitvsdelta.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#51

Post by awj »

mikeash wrote: post #36
mturmon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can wear the shirt, but you can't be surprised when they single you out for more security checks. (Recognition and response to specific potential threats is what critics of "security theater" want, anyway.) Once you get the check, which was not unexpected, you should expect that if you are perceived as smarting off, then the situation will get worse. Since they have all the power, it can get arbitrarily bad. Give…

"You can wear the shirt, but you can't be surprised when they single you out for more security checks. (Recognition and response to specific potential threats is what critics of "security theater" want, anyway.)" What? No. No, no, no. What we want is recognition and response to actual threats , not knee-jerk responses to anything unusual or non-conformist. A shirt like this doesn't indicate a threat. Smart security w…

> A shirt like this doesn't indicate a threat. Smart security would not single it out.

How, again, is the goal of smart security advanced by making a big scene in a way that gets everyone who doesn't already agree with him to say "well, what did you expect"?

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#52

Post by mturmon »

mikeash wrote: post #36
mturmon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can wear the shirt, but you can't be surprised when they single you out for more security checks. (Recognition and response to specific potential threats is what critics of "security theater" want, anyway.) Once you get the check, which was not unexpected, you should expect that if you are perceived as smarting off, then the situation will get worse. Since they have all the power, it can get arbitrarily bad. Give…

"You can wear the shirt, but you can't be surprised when they single you out for more security checks. (Recognition and response to specific potential threats is what critics of "security theater" want, anyway.)" What? No. No, no, no. What we want is recognition and response to actual threats , not knee-jerk responses to anything unusual or non-conformist. A shirt like this doesn't indicate a threat. Smart security w…

I said "specific potential threats". Not "threats". I agree, the man is not an actual threat, and the agents should have seen that as well, eventually. Their failure to move on is a problem, but they did not write a blog post asking for sympathy.

A red shirt with the words, "bomb", "kill", and "blood" is something that will get you noticed. It is not just "unusual or non-conformist", it specifically references security concerns -- the agents would be derelict in their duty to not take an extra look. They tell you not to joke about bombs for a reason! It is almost literally waving a red flag in front of a bull.

That's why he wore it, right? Why else would a person wear such a shirt?

I'm just saying, if one does this, one has to think ahead.

I enjoy your blog, by the way.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#53

Post by dhimes »

Bud wrote: post #33
dhimes wrote: post #14

What an immature little creep. There are plenty of people who are nervous about flying but who have to do so anyway due to family or business or what-have-you. So he shows up in this shirt-- why?? What's really the point? To get in the TSA workers' faces? To look like a tough guy to the scared grandma, who needed one less thing to worry about on the flight? Fuck off. Kudos to the pilot who made a decision based on th…

I think you're ranting, and did not actually read the article. This guy clearly did not have the objective of "getting in the TSA workers' faces"; the article clearly states that he had already cleared the TSA checkpoint without incident, and was then challenged by a Delta supervisor. It sounds to me, based on all the facts we have available, that someone got in this guy's face. Not the other way around. So basically…

Nope. You are reading his story without thinking. I don't buy his story. He's a punk who was getting off on the whole idea of what he was doing. There are three possibilities in this case:

(1) he woke up, possibly hung over, and dressed without thinking;

(2) he deliberated picked his shirt knowing he would be dealing with TSA agents, etc. (in your face!) and possibly knowing that he would make some folks nervous and not giving a shit; or

(3) he made the choice in #2 but with the aim to antagonize-- in essence, psychologically bullying those around him (Oh, I'm not scared, are you?).

I figure that if it was #1 the blog post would have bee a whole lot different. The best I can allow him is that it was a move of immaturity. I am not applauding, regardless of my stance on the TSA and their practices.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#54

Post by tonycoco »

grecy wrote: post #40
anigbrowl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is one possibility, but so is anxiety about the guy's shirt and his attitude. Not very rational, but a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. A snotty disregard for the concerns of others tends to make them unsympathetic to your point of view. As for why pilots have the power to boot people, it's because they're responsible for the safety and happiness of the passengers duri…

> a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. Free Speech (but only when we say so)

Isn't it a privilege to fly? Not a right. It's not like an airplane is some public government arena. It's the property of the airlines, just so happens that you have to be cleared by the government to fly. Don't they have the right to refuse service to a customer, especially if that customer is making employees and other customers uneasy. I'm sure if you went into a McDonald's and were wearing some suspicious clothing or start spouting off ridiculous speeches, they'd ask you kindly to leave and tell you that you were not a welcome customer any longer. In fact, I've seen it happen.

There are places for expression and "Free Speech"... maybe sitting next to the 13 year old or grandmother (or any other paying customer) who's flying for the first time in his/her life wearing some silly t-shirt about bombs and anti-government banter isn't the right place for it.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#56

Post by jack-r-abbit »

tonycoco wrote: post #54
grecy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. Free Speech (but only when we say so)

Isn't it a privilege to fly? Not a right. It's not like an airplane is some public government arena. It's the property of the airlines, just so happens that you have to be cleared by the government to fly. Don't they have the right to refuse service to a customer, especially if that customer is making employees and other customers uneasy. I'm sure if you went into a McDonald's and were wearing some suspicious clothin…

But don't you think it would be a little bit of an overreaction if McDonalds threw you out simply for wearing a "Meat is Murder" t-shirt?

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#57

Post by tonycoco »

tonycoco wrote: post #54
grecy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. Free Speech (but only when we say so)

Isn't it a privilege to fly? Not a right. It's not like an airplane is some public government arena. It's the property of the airlines, just so happens that you have to be cleared by the government to fly. Don't they have the right to refuse service to a customer, especially if that customer is making employees and other customers uneasy. I'm sure if you went into a McDonald's and were wearing some suspicious clothin…

No, but what about a "Bombs in McDonalds are cool." t-shirt? Context. Context. That is all.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#58

Post by readymade »

dhimes wrote: post #27
ww520 wrote: post #11

The terrorists have won. Americans have lost their way of life.

This has nothing to do with that. It's like wearing a t-shirt saying "rape is underrated" to a home for battered women. It's thoughtless and selfish and not funny. And for reasons I stated elsewhere, the pilot made the right call, especially from a business perspective.

A shirt mocking the TSA doesn't come close to that analogy, even if you consider it bad taste, since it doesn't legitimize, condone or make light of terrorism. If it said "Terrorism rules!", then perhaps you'd have a point, although it's still a stupid reason to put him through what they did, especially considering his ordeal did not end with agreeing to change his clothes.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#59

Post by Someone »

Bud wrote: post #33
dhimes wrote: post #14

What an immature little creep. There are plenty of people who are nervous about flying but who have to do so anyway due to family or business or what-have-you. So he shows up in this shirt-- why?? What's really the point? To get in the TSA workers' faces? To look like a tough guy to the scared grandma, who needed one less thing to worry about on the flight? Fuck off. Kudos to the pilot who made a decision based on th…

I think you're ranting, and did not actually read the article. This guy clearly did not have the objective of "getting in the TSA workers' faces"; the article clearly states that he had already cleared the TSA checkpoint without incident, and was then challenged by a Delta supervisor. It sounds to me, based on all the facts we have available, that someone got in this guy's face. Not the other way around. So basically…

"based on all the facts we have available"? The only facts I get from this page are "there is this guy who is pissed because he got kicked from a plane, allegedly solely for wearing this anti-TSA t-shirt". The article contains a one-sided statement. It may be factually correct, or it may not, but we do not know which.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#60

Post by tonycoco »

mindslight wrote: post #26
chiph wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because when the plane pushes back from the gate, the pilot is in charge and is responsible for the safety of everyone aboard. Much like how a captain at sea is responsible for everyone on board his ship (and is held accountable should tragedy strike). It's not a republic or democracy when you're on his plane. What he says, goes.

While agreeing with that, Delta should still be held responsible for getting him to his destination on a reasonable schedule, the costs of his accommodations, and his and his wife's wasted time.

If Delta should be reasonable (getting him accommodations) shouldn't he also be reasonable next time he gets on one of their planes?
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