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Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

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Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#51

Post by cess11 »

abcd_f wrote: post #18
cess11 wrote: post #14

I disagree with MacIntyre about a lot, both in theology and political philosophy, but I respect him for having tried to engage with both Nietzsche and the french philosophers heavily influenced by him as well as sticking by his egalitarian ethics even after the successful revolt of Reagan and the yuppies. 'When asked in 1996 what values he retained from his Marxist days, MacIntyre answered, “I would still like to see…

> every rich person hanged from the nearest lamp post As the joke from the 00s went - in other news, Cisco has become today the first company to close its doors because all its employees cashed out their stock options and quit. That is, hanging rich persons from the lamp posts is probably not the maxim that would resonate well on the HN :)

On average I think it has changed some in later years. I don't see as much eugenics and far-right apologia as I used to.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#53

Post by coolKid721 »

AquinasCoder wrote: post #25

I recommend some of his other works: Whose Justice, Whose Rationality and Dependent Rational Animals. It’s rewarding to seem him attempt a reconciliation between some modern epistemologies and Augustinian Thomism. I’m not sure he really pulls it off but his stature as a thinker in moral philosophy is undeniable.

Also his very late work, ethics in the conflicts of modernity is often looked over for his older ones but is probably my favorite.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#54

Post by NilMostChill »

belter wrote: post #34
NilMostChill wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you're conflating faith with religion. Faith being "confidence, trust or belief in a thing , person or concept, sometimes in the absence of proof" Not to be confused with "blind faith" which is the above but with wilful ignorance or dismissal of proof that contradicts the aspect of the faith. Also not to be confused with "religion" which is the social construct or organisation around a central faith. You can…

I am not conflating faith with religion, but the statement clearly refers to his religion...MacIntyre appeals and arguments smuggle theology in through the back door. Presents basic commitments as if they were simply the unavoidable presuppositions of moral reasoning, yet in practice the basic commitments he privileges are those of Roman-Catholic Thomism. By treating them as axiomatic rather than doctrinal...transfor…

I will defer to your superior knowledge of his actual writing, i haven't read them, i was referring purely to your reply to the statement provided.

The quote mentioned faith and philosophy by name, if the actual writings are more about religion than faith then i retract my statement.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#55

Post by vehemenz »

Veen wrote: post #24
neel_k wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Rorty, whose humanism and love of democracy MacIntyre despised. Over the course of his career, MacIntyre went from an extreme left Marxist to an extreme right Thomist, and the only constant was his hatred of liberalism. He really couldn't stand the idea that people could believe in rationalism, feel the moral force of individual rights, or make purpose and meaning for themselves, all without appealing to an a…

Perhaps, but 20 years after Rorty's death, he's largely forgotten. I think it unlikely the same will be true of MacIntyre two-decades hence.

This is an odd take. Rorty is one of the major philosophers of the 20th century. MacIntyre is more obscure, probably unknown to plenty of academic philosophers.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#56

Post by eszed »

oceansky wrote: post #16
CoastalCoder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(checks notes on Christian theology) Yup. (Actually, I don't know how promptly they reckon fallen Christians will be revived.)

Actually, most christian denominations believe you go to heaven or hell(or purgatory for catholics) immediately after you die. But some churches, like Jehovah's witnesses and adventists believe in the "soul sleep", so the soul sleeps until the second coming of Christ, then you are sent to either heaven or hell.

There's nuance to that, as well. Official Adventist theology is that even after the Judgment there will not be an "ever-burning Hell", with eternal torture and suffering, but rather that the unrighteous (even including Satan and his evil angels) will be burned - body and soul - into non-being in an instant.

Of course, folk belief and desire for retribution being what they are, many SdA folks will tell you that that instant will "feel like eternity".

There's also a weird bit about how after Jesus returns and takes the righteous away with him Satan will rule the world for, like, a thousand years. That's expected to be pretty awful for everyone left behind - so, you know, don't you kids go swimming on Saturday - but it's intended to demonstrate, once and for all, that Jesus' way is the best way. (I admire the fair-minded impulse behind that narrative, like: gotta give Satan a shot!) After that, though (because obviously life with Satan in charge will be awful), God'll annihilate all them, and (if I recall correctly) all of the righteous, along with God and Jesus and all the angels, will move back to live on Earth.

Source: raised SdA.

(No idea what JWs have to say about any of this. I ask them very nicely not to bother me again, and they've always - the odd pamphlet through the letterbox apart - done so.)

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#57

Post by senderista »

zoogeny wrote: post #46
cm2012 wrote: post #26

“After Virtue” annoys me because it basically argues that morality only makes sense within cultural traditions, as if we’re all just trapped in our local narratives with no access to universal truths. MacIntyre romanticizes ancient communities and traditions, but ignores the fact that plenty of those upheld horrifying practices—like slavery, misogyny, or human sacrifice—and calling those ‘virtuous’ just because they…

I think there is a difference between there being a universal moral Truth (ontological) vs. a particular individuals ability to know that universal (epistemological). The former doesn't necessarily imply the latter. Rejecting the latter (the ability to know) doesn't require rejecting the former (the universal). If one considers that these two are decoupled, it poses a question: how could one live in alignment to a un…

Most people never introspect their own moral beliefs enough to even consider their validity.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#58

Post by abcd_f »

cess11 wrote: post #51
abcd_f wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every rich person hanged from the nearest lamp post As the joke from the 00s went - in other news, Cisco has become today the first company to close its doors because all its employees cashed out their stock options and quit. That is, hanging rich persons from the lamp posts is probably not the maxim that would resonate well on the HN :)

On average I think it has changed some in later years. I don't see as much eugenics and far-right apologia as I used to.

You think the majority of the HN is now in favor of hanging the rich from the street poles?

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#59

Post by gjm11 »

neel_k wrote: post #20
gjm11 wrote: post #6

Now I want to know whose work McIntyre described as "the philosophical equivalent of Vogue ".

Richard Rorty, whose humanism and love of democracy MacIntyre despised. Over the course of his career, MacIntyre went from an extreme left Marxist to an extreme right Thomist, and the only constant was his hatred of liberalism. He really couldn't stand the idea that people could believe in rationalism, feel the moral force of individual rights, or make purpose and meaning for themselves, all without appealing to an a…

Excellent -- thanks! Do you know where/when he said it?

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#60

Post by lukeasrodgers »

qhiliq wrote: post #40

The MacIntyre piece I read first and got the most from is "Hegel on Faces and Skulls". It explains Hegel's critique of physiognomy and phrenology, which is about what we can and cannot learn about someone by looking at them. Said another way, the difference between expressions and physical traits. I think about it a lot whenever I see claims made about facial recognition systems, and in my day job working on motion c…

Yes, this is still the most persuasive and concise argument I’ve encountered against a whole host of forms of biological reductionism, including those based on modern fmri techniques.
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