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In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

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Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rough like the roughest hangover you can have. I had a general anesthesia at 21 for dental surgery. The come back was a nightmare: nausea, shaking, cold and hot alternating, terrible headache, cramps, exhausted and mentally depressed during ~2 days. I couldn't eat, I couldn't drink (but brute force myself to do it), I couldn't think or concentrate on anything but the pain. The only close experience I can remember is…

Probably Ketamine.

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Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good day to you.

Well... My textbook[0] says: > The minimum alveolar concentration (MAC) is the minimum concentration of an inhaled anesthetic at 1 atm of pressure that prevents skeletal muscle movement in response to a surgical incision in 50% of patients. So first, you do not measure the depth of anesthesia, you measure the concentration of the anesthetic. Second, you judge this concentration by the prevention of muscle movement. C…

"MAC being the primary indication of anesthetic depth being the textbook definition"

I am an attending anesthesiologist and this is true. MAC cannot be interpreted at face value, though. You've got other drugs on board (not accounted for in MAC), the patient might be frail or very old, etc. etc. All things changing MAC interpretation, which is why there are still anesthesia providers instead of robots ;-) We currently have no way of faithfully measuring the depth of anesthesia, and our understanding of consciousness/awareness is incomplete. Anesthesiologists have to rely mostly on know-how, even in 2025.

Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#53

"Kids don't need anesthetics. If they are young enough, they won't remember the pain, so you can just operate without anesthetics. They are also easier to restrain than adults." This was state of the art in medicine for quite some time. I fear the general trend of "medication bad" will get us back to those dark times. Btw, those dark times ended only as recently as 1987! https://www.newsweek.com/when-doctors-start-us…

This research is aimed precisely at making it safe enough to administer general anesthesia in these populations for that to become standard of care. Let me preempt one possible line here: I do not love the circumstances under which I would have been circumcised as a neonate in Mississippi in the very early 1980s, and I do not resent the result. Living that far tied up in the past is for men who can't figure out how t…

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Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#54
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This research is aimed precisely at making it safe enough to administer general anesthesia in these populations for that to become standard of care. Let me preempt one possible line here: I do not love the circumstances under which I would have been circumcised as a neonate in Mississippi in the very early 1980s, and I do not resent the result. Living that far tied up in the past is for men who can't figure out how t…

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What? How are you making that leap? I'm not insulted; we've never met. I am confused, though, and you are a licensed professional facing specific ethical requirements and constraints on your issuance of medical advice. Perhaps you'll explain what you know that I don't.

Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#55
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This research is aimed precisely at making it safe enough to administer general anesthesia in these populations for that to become standard of care. Let me preempt one possible line here: I do not love the circumstances under which I would have been circumcised as a neonate in Mississippi in the very early 1980s, and I do not resent the result. Living that far tied up in the past is for men who can't figure out how t…

I really do not understand why did you felt the need to push for circumcisions here. Like, no one asked or discussed them one way or the other. Like ok, it is religious for Jews and Arabs, but no one else have to care.

Who pushed?

Jesus, I tried as hard as I knew how not to start a fight, knowing this place plays host to a few foreskin mourners. Better just to avoid entirely, it appears, and duly noted.

What a shame the eyeroll emoji is filtered here. That, apparently, is the level people are on. A paragraph is too much! Or is everyone still rationing since Cerebral, or whatever that telemedicine pill mill was called, shut down a few years back? Is that why no one is reading today?

I never thought I'd say this, but for God's sake and as a favor to us both, pipe my shit through ChatGPT and ask for a reframing on a sixth-grade reading level. You pay for access to the damned robot, let it wipe your nose through the remedial work. I've got embroidery to do and movies to watch.

Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This research is aimed precisely at making it safe enough to administer general anesthesia in these populations for that to become standard of care. Let me preempt one possible line here: I do not love the circumstances under which I would have been circumcised as a neonate in Mississippi in the very early 1980s, and I do not resent the result. Living that far tied up in the past is for men who can't figure out how t…

I didn't say anything about a foreskin anywhere. And my point is, they did not just do minor stuff like a circumcision (which I think is a barbaric, pointless and immoral practice to inflict on non-consenting minors in any case except to maybe cure phimosis). They did major surgery. Like opening the cranium or abdomen. Like removing limbs. Like removing burnt skin by brushing it off and applying skin grafts. And no,…

According to a social media influencer.

Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#57
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What? How are you making that leap? I'm not insulted; we've never met. I am confused, though, and you are a licensed professional facing specific ethical requirements and constraints on your issuance of medical advice. Perhaps you'll explain what you know that I don't.

Circumcision induces keratinization of the glans (one of the reasons this makes us more resistant to many STDs). I noticed a huge difference in touch perception before vs. after and I strongly resent that this was brought onto me. I'm not trying to insult anyone. It's personal.

Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#58
post #20

Why is this about kids? Do we already measure EEG for adults? Or not? If we do, why has it taken so long to do with kids? If not, is this a first step? Why start with kids rather than adults? This article provides shockingly little context.

Doctors not too long ago would tell you that infants don't experience pain. There are a lot of not backed by science beliefs in the medical field that won't die until the doctors that believe them do. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23548489/

Too much protein is bad for your kidneys!!!

PS: this has been debunked, still docs keep saying it.

Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#59
post #17

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I’m good here. Thanks.

What about people who routinely use drugs in heavier concentrations or who have higher tolerance from genetics? How is that detected?

You just crank it up until those people don't react. With experience, you can anticipate those pretty well.

Re: In kids, EEG monitoring of consciousness safely reduces anesthetic use

#60
I used to work in this field decades ago. It was relatively straightforward. You could see it with your plain eyes in the EEG, but also you could calculate metrics from it. One really fun way was to listen to the sped up EEG signal when a person is put into anesthesia. It sounded like you went underwater.

The key thing is that when people are given muscle relaxants, you need an independent method to measure consciousness directly.

I haven't followed this in decades so it's a total surprise to me if it isn't mainstream yet.

You could buy a module for your anesthesia monitor for this, no need to use a separate device.

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