Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 68 posts

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#51

Post by jltsiren »

oceanplexian wrote: post #38
Terr_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they shouldn't be part of 4-front trade war against the country's biggest partners comprising >50% of all trade. "Do something or we'll trade with somebody else" is not a credible threat if they know you've already pissed off everybody else.

The US is the world's largest domestic economy. Trade with all nations around the world is 24% of the USA's GDP. You could shut it all down and the country would probably enter a mild recession while the rest of the world would face complete economic collapse. For example, 67% of Canada's GDP is reliant on the United States in some way. The US has an insane amount of leverage. Leaders in Canada, Europe, etc talk a bi…

24% of US GDP divided by US GDP is a larger number than 24% of US GDP divided by non-US GDP. Any changes to US foreign trade affect the US more than the rest of the world.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#52

Post by 3vidence »

oceanplexian wrote: post #26
brookst wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m skeptical the tariffs were mean to shield US interests rather than just being intended to do exactly what they’re achieving: isolating the US by driving investment and allies away, while contributing to a recession where oligarchs can further consolidate power and wealth. If you look at them as an attack on the US, everything makes a lot more sense.

> Isolating the US by driving investment and allies away Foreign government's have an easy solution to solve the problem. Don't unfairly advantage your goods and services against American products and we won't do the same. Free trade shouldn't mean "Free trade for one side". Free trade should be contingent on reciprocity, both in terms of social and economic alignment.

Ahh yes, America uses tarrifs to force a new trade agreement and then says that trade agreement is bad.

The US just isn't planning things anymore and trying to justify it makes people look silly.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#53

Post by AnimalMuppet »

oceanplexian wrote: post #38
Terr_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they shouldn't be part of 4-front trade war against the country's biggest partners comprising >50% of all trade. "Do something or we'll trade with somebody else" is not a credible threat if they know you've already pissed off everybody else.

The US is the world's largest domestic economy. Trade with all nations around the world is 24% of the USA's GDP. You could shut it all down and the country would probably enter a mild recession while the rest of the world would face complete economic collapse. For example, 67% of Canada's GDP is reliant on the United States in some way. The US has an insane amount of leverage. Leaders in Canada, Europe, etc talk a bi…

GDP fell 29% during the Great Depression. 80% of the way to the Great Depression is not a "mild" recession!

I agree that it would be less severe for the US than for other countries. It's essentially saying, economically, "Do what I want or I'll kill you." It's a mafia-style negotiation. I despise it when others do it, and I despise that the US is doing it.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#54

Post by piva00 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #38
Terr_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they shouldn't be part of 4-front trade war against the country's biggest partners comprising >50% of all trade. "Do something or we'll trade with somebody else" is not a credible threat if they know you've already pissed off everybody else.

The US is the world's largest domestic economy. Trade with all nations around the world is 24% of the USA's GDP. You could shut it all down and the country would probably enter a mild recession while the rest of the world would face complete economic collapse. For example, 67% of Canada's GDP is reliant on the United States in some way. The US has an insane amount of leverage. Leaders in Canada, Europe, etc talk a bi…

When we start talking about 24% of the GDP we gotta go more specific into what industries depend on to understand the impact. Agricultural industry as a whole (imports, local production, etc.) represents much less than 24% of USA's GDP but if it disappeared it would be cataclysmic for the nation.

And 24% of GDP is a whole fucking quarter of the whole economic production of the largest economy in the world, it's not a "mild recession"...

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#55

Post by piva00 »

GeekyBear wrote: post #41
standardUser wrote: post #14

Everyone hates tariffs because everyone hates taxes. If a government uses protectionism for a specific policy goal, like developing a domestic auto industry, that can be very effective and we've seen that work lots of times in lots of countries. The US may have recently managed to achieve this with microchip production. But when tariffs are applied broadly we all pay more in taxes. And it's worse than a more familiar…

Brazil and India have both successfully forced Apple to move production onto their soil using tarrifs in the past. If the object is to bring in local manufacturing jobs, it's hard to claim that tarrifs can not be successful. However, you can naturally expect vocal opposition from companies that want to avoid higher labor costs. In the case of India, it's worked out very well as a proof of concept after Apple decided…

While tariffs have been used as a protectionism measure in Brazil for decades, and before tariffs there was a complete import ban for a lot of manufactured goods during the military dictatorship. It never ever helped local industrialisation, instead the country is stuck paying absurd prices for electronics goods while the local production, research and development, etc. are extremely subpar.

It only helped locally produced shoddy products to win a larger market share, quality is underwhelming since they don't have to compete with more better products at the same price.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#56

Post by m463 »

sourtrident wrote: post #6

It's wild - tariffs meant to shield U.S. interests end up giving Apple and Foxconn headaches, shifting their entire strategy. Reminds me of closing one door only to notice everyone's sneaking in through the window. Protectionism might feel good, but tech always finds another route around.

I think apple still makes the mac pro in the US.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#57

Post by m463 »

unavoidable wrote: post #40
jonplackett wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t really want to collect tariff $. They want to force production in the US, which the article says is what they are going to do. That’s not a window being jumped through, that’s the intent. Or am I missing something here?

You have to look past the stated intention. It's quite clear by logical deduction that it cannot be the stated purpose. If the policy is intended to bring back US manufacturing, it would not be haphazardly implemented where the rates/industries/countries affected change by the hour. The best example are auto tariffs and steel/aluminum tariffs, which are going to absolutely destroy US auto manufacturing (where do we t…

> scheduled well in advance

I suspect they only have 4 years.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#58

Post by CPLX »

hamilyon2 wrote: post #43
CPLX wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If tariffs work at all (which is doubtful) Of course they work. China has used them to go from people living in huts to the high tech manufacturing center of the world.

Protectionism only works in combination with other measures. If you indiscriminately shield domestic enterprise from competition, you just get less competition and nothing else. Which is usually not enough.

Arguable. But yes of course the best lesson to learn is that tariffs are one of the fundamentals tools of an effective industrial policy.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#59

Post by whatshisface »

unavoidable wrote: post #32
whatshisface wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't need to prove to the world that a bad president will never be elected again, which as you say is probably impossible and definitely false. What the US can do to rejoin the world in something akin to its former capacity is to walk back the extreme levels of authority granted to an individual who changes every four years (why is the executive able to change tariff levels every day?) in a way that relativ…

As an outsider, it certainly seems like the US is entirely incapable of doing that in the foreseeable future.

Yes but at least the nature of the problem is one of getting people informed and in agreement and not some kind of economic miracle or unhinged reconquista.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#60

Post by whatshisface »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #33
whatshisface wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't need to prove to the world that a bad president will never be elected again, which as you say is probably impossible and definitely false. What the US can do to rejoin the world in something akin to its former capacity is to walk back the extreme levels of authority granted to an individual who changes every four years (why is the executive able to change tariff levels every day?) in a way that relativ…

I'm hoping that the Democrats (and sympathetic Republicans) started working on a plan for this a few weeks ago. It needs to be comprehensive, and it needs to deal with both houses being majority single party, and deal with the ability for a president to select appointees to the powerful roles that are now filled with Trump catspaws. They also need to fix their voting rules and gerrymandering. I hope.

One thing that might help is if we stop thinking of them as, "they," as if they were some kind of occupying force.
Post reply on HN