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Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

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Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#31

Post by whoisthemachine »

brookst wrote: post #7
sourtrident wrote: post #6

It's wild - tariffs meant to shield U.S. interests end up giving Apple and Foxconn headaches, shifting their entire strategy. Reminds me of closing one door only to notice everyone's sneaking in through the window. Protectionism might feel good, but tech always finds another route around.

I’m skeptical the tariffs were mean to shield US interests rather than just being intended to do exactly what they’re achieving: isolating the US by driving investment and allies away, while contributing to a recession where oligarchs can further consolidate power and wealth. If you look at them as an attack on the US, everything makes a lot more sense.

I think the idea is definitely to trigger a recession, but I doubt they care about "allies"; this crowd loved the zero-interest rate days. A strong enough recession should bring those back without the drama of the president forcing the fed chief to do so through coercion.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#32

Post by unavoidable »

whatshisface wrote: post #29
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The US has revealed itself to be prone to wild swings of policy, which will not be a lesson soon forgotten by prior trade allies. Even if sanity and democracy are brought back by a future adminstration, the US public have proven they can't be trusted not to vote in another clone of their current dictator. DJT Jnr and Barron will probably have a shot at the title in the not too distant future to maintain some…

The US doesn't need to prove to the world that a bad president will never be elected again, which as you say is probably impossible and definitely false. What the US can do to rejoin the world in something akin to its former capacity is to walk back the extreme levels of authority granted to an individual who changes every four years (why is the executive able to change tariff levels every day?) in a way that relativ…

As an outsider, it certainly seems like the US is entirely incapable of doing that in the foreseeable future.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#33

Post by BLKNSLVR »

whatshisface wrote: post #29
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The US has revealed itself to be prone to wild swings of policy, which will not be a lesson soon forgotten by prior trade allies. Even if sanity and democracy are brought back by a future adminstration, the US public have proven they can't be trusted not to vote in another clone of their current dictator. DJT Jnr and Barron will probably have a shot at the title in the not too distant future to maintain some…

The US doesn't need to prove to the world that a bad president will never be elected again, which as you say is probably impossible and definitely false. What the US can do to rejoin the world in something akin to its former capacity is to walk back the extreme levels of authority granted to an individual who changes every four years (why is the executive able to change tariff levels every day?) in a way that relativ…

I'm hoping that the Democrats (and sympathetic Republicans) started working on a plan for this a few weeks ago. It needs to be comprehensive, and it needs to deal with both houses being majority single party, and deal with the ability for a president to select appointees to the powerful roles that are now filled with Trump catspaws.

They also need to fix their voting rules and gerrymandering.

I hope.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#34

Post by orwin »

standardUser wrote: post #14

Everyone hates tariffs because everyone hates taxes. If a government uses protectionism for a specific policy goal, like developing a domestic auto industry, that can be very effective and we've seen that work lots of times in lots of countries. The US may have recently managed to achieve this with microchip production. But when tariffs are applied broadly we all pay more in taxes. And it's worse than a more familiar…

Tariffs are little better than VAT/sales taxes as taxes imho (I'd rather have more progressive taxes like LVT, inheritance, wealth or at worse income), but in most countries, VAT is set extremely low on essential products like food. Setting global tariffs is idiotic. At least let the food and AG products free.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#35

Post by BLKNSLVR »

oceanplexian wrote: post #26
brookst wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m skeptical the tariffs were mean to shield US interests rather than just being intended to do exactly what they’re achieving: isolating the US by driving investment and allies away, while contributing to a recession where oligarchs can further consolidate power and wealth. If you look at them as an attack on the US, everything makes a lot more sense.

> Isolating the US by driving investment and allies away Foreign government's have an easy solution to solve the problem. Don't unfairly advantage your goods and services against American products and we won't do the same. Free trade shouldn't mean "Free trade for one side". Free trade should be contingent on reciprocity, both in terms of social and economic alignment.

Trump signed the trade deal with Canada in his first term. Now he's calling it unfair.

Trump stated that the Canadian tariffs were a reaction to fentanyl crossing the Canadian border into the US.

That has nothing to do with trade fairness or Canadian protectionism.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#36

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

oceanplexian wrote: post #26
brookst wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m skeptical the tariffs were mean to shield US interests rather than just being intended to do exactly what they’re achieving: isolating the US by driving investment and allies away, while contributing to a recession where oligarchs can further consolidate power and wealth. If you look at them as an attack on the US, everything makes a lot more sense.

> Isolating the US by driving investment and allies away Foreign government's have an easy solution to solve the problem. Don't unfairly advantage your goods and services against American products and we won't do the same. Free trade shouldn't mean "Free trade for one side". Free trade should be contingent on reciprocity, both in terms of social and economic alignment.

...as mediated by individual buyers and sellers deciding whether they'll pay a price based on the quality of the goods. Not based on some kind of dick waving contest that's happening in the corridors of power.

By now it's clear that "fair" in this administration is defined by whoever is the biggest bully in the room, so

> unfairly advantage your goods and services against American products

is just a fancy way to say: "let us push you around."

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#37

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #22
jonplackett wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t really want to collect tariff $. They want to force production in the US, which the article says is what they are going to do. That’s not a window being jumped through, that’s the intent. Or am I missing something here?

No, you're not missing anything. That's the intent.

Is there actually an equitable plan for that? Because everyone I turn around a raid is on then off then on then off.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#38

Post by oceanplexian »

Terr_ wrote: post #25
unavoidable wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If tariffs work at all (which is doubtful), they're supposed to be part of an overarching plan with a long-term strategy in coordination with industry so that they can actually invest in creating new manufacturing. It certainly isn't going to work when tariffs are going on-off-on-off-25%-200%-10%-off-on-sometimes-off-on again. How in the world is _anyone_, American or otherwise, supposed to plan around this?

Also, they shouldn't be part of 4-front trade war against the country's biggest partners comprising >50% of all trade. "Do something or we'll trade with somebody else" is not a credible threat if they know you've already pissed off everybody else.

The US is the world's largest domestic economy. Trade with all nations around the world is 24% of the USA's GDP. You could shut it all down and the country would probably enter a mild recession while the rest of the world would face complete economic collapse. For example, 67% of Canada's GDP is reliant on the United States in some way.

The US has an insane amount of leverage. Leaders in Canada, Europe, etc talk a big game but then ultimately talk to an economist and realize they have to come to the table. That's why these leaders keep announcing things and then walking them back.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#39

Post by CPLX »

unavoidable wrote: post #16
standardUser wrote: post #14

Everyone hates tariffs because everyone hates taxes. If a government uses protectionism for a specific policy goal, like developing a domestic auto industry, that can be very effective and we've seen that work lots of times in lots of countries. The US may have recently managed to achieve this with microchip production. But when tariffs are applied broadly we all pay more in taxes. And it's worse than a more familiar…

If tariffs work at all (which is doubtful), they're supposed to be part of an overarching plan with a long-term strategy in coordination with industry so that they can actually invest in creating new manufacturing. It certainly isn't going to work when tariffs are going on-off-on-off-25%-200%-10%-off-on-sometimes-off-on again. How in the world is _anyone_, American or otherwise, supposed to plan around this?

> If tariffs work at all (which is doubtful)

Of course they work. China has used them to go from people living in huts to the high tech manufacturing center of the world.

Re: Tariffs Are Proving 'Big Headache' for Tech Giants, Says Foxconn

#40

Post by unavoidable »

jonplackett wrote: post #18
sourtrident wrote: post #6

It's wild - tariffs meant to shield U.S. interests end up giving Apple and Foxconn headaches, shifting their entire strategy. Reminds me of closing one door only to notice everyone's sneaking in through the window. Protectionism might feel good, but tech always finds another route around.

They don’t really want to collect tariff $. They want to force production in the US, which the article says is what they are going to do. That’s not a window being jumped through, that’s the intent. Or am I missing something here?

You have to look past the stated intention. It's quite clear by logical deduction that it cannot be the stated purpose.

If the policy is intended to bring back US manufacturing, it would not be haphazardly implemented where the rates/industries/countries affected change by the hour. The best example are auto tariffs and steel/aluminum tariffs, which are going to absolutely destroy US auto manufacturing (where do we think the steel and aluminum used in cars are coming from?). An actual "reshoring" policy would be (1) targeted and (2) scheduled well in advance. So it obviously isn't that.

It also can't be part of a drug policy, since whatever Trump is saying about Canada is clearly false (Canada accounts for less than 1% of illicit fentanyl trade and is a net _importer_ of illegal drugs and guns _from_ the US), thus no policy can really impact this trade.

It also clearly can't be part of an energy policy, since US refineries are designed to accept a huge amount of Canadian and South American heavy crude (very little of which is produced in the US), so the oil tariffs can't possibly "onshore" more production of heavy crude.

The long-held theory by some that he's wrecking the economy for insider trading also doesn't make sense, because his favoured allies like Musk are losing tons of money right now, and an "insider trading" strategy would be much more regularly spaced rather than changing by-the-hour.

That leaves, by deduction, only a few possibilities:

* Trump really is intentionally wrecking the economy, for known or unknown reasons:

* He's wrecking the economy by instruction from a foreign agent (e.g. Putin - certainly indirect evidence exists)

* He's wrecking the economy because his donors told him to (e.g. Musk, other billionaires - unlikely because why would they want that? They would rather have the stock market go straight up, right?)

* He's wrecking the economy so that his "friends" can trade on the market with insider information (see above - seems unlikely based on the pattern)

* He's wrecking the economy so that his "friends" can buy things cheaply (would have been plausible but for the widespread collateral damage he's causing)

* Trump actually genuinely believes in tariffs (he's a product of the 80s after all)

* Trump actually genuinely hates Mexico, Canada, Europe, and China (seems plausible based on his personality and that of his political base)

* Trump really has no idea what he's doing (judge for yourself)

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