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OpenAI O3-Mini

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Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#51

Post by patrickhogan1 »

pookieinc wrote: post #8

Can't wait to try this. What's amazing to me is that when this was revealed just one short month ago, the AI landscape looked very different than it does today with more AI companies jumping into the fray with very compelling models. I wonder how the AI shift has affected this release internally, future releases and their mindset moving forward... How does the efficiency change, the scope of their models, etc.

I thought it was o3 that was released one month ago and received high scores on ARC Prize - https://arcprize.org/blog/oai-o3-pub-breakthrough

If they were the same, I would have expected explicit references to o3 in the system card and how o3-mini is distilled or built from o3 - https://cdn.openai.com/o3-mini-system-card.pdf - but there are no references.

Excited at the pace all the same. Excited to dig in. The model naming all around is so confusing. Very difficult to tell what breakthrough innovations occurred.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#52

Post by ALittleLight »

sss111 wrote: post #3

So far, it seems like this is the hierarchy o1 > GPT-4o > o3-mini > o1-mini > GPT-4o-mini o3 mini system card: https://cdn.openai.com/o3-mini-system-card.pdf

That seems very bad. What's the point of a new model that's worse than 4o? I guess it's cheaper in the API and a bit better at coding - but, this doesn't seem compelling.

With DeepSeek I heard OpenAI saying the plan was to move releases on models that were meaningfully better than the competition. Seems like what we're getting is the scheduled releases that are worse than the current versions.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#53

Post by csomar »

ilaksh wrote: post #35
buyucu wrote: post #23

why should anyone use this when deepseek is free/cheaper? openai is no longer relevant.

I don't think OpenAI is training on your data. At least they say they don't, and I believe that. I wouldn't be surprised if the NSA or something has access to data if they request it or something though. But DeepSeek clearly states in their terms of service that they can train on your API data or use it for other purposes. Which one might assume their government can access as well. We need direct eval comparisons bet…

You can pay for the compute and be certain that no one in recording your data with deepseek.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#54

Post by kaaskop »

sho_hn wrote: post #12
sss111 wrote: post #3

So far, it seems like this is the hierarchy o1 > GPT-4o > o3-mini > o1-mini > GPT-4o-mini o3 mini system card: https://cdn.openai.com/o3-mini-system-card.pdf

I think OpenAI really needs to rethink its product naming, especially now that they have a portfolio where there's no such clear hierarchy, but they have a place along different axis (speed, cost, reasoning, capabilities, etc). Your summary attempt e.g. also misses o3-mini vs o3-mini-high. Lots of trade-ofs.

Yeah their naming scheme is super confusing, I honestly confuse them all the time.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#55

Post by kingnothing »

ryanhecht wrote: post #39

> While OpenAI o1 remains our broader general knowledge reasoning model, OpenAI o3-mini provides a specialized alternative for technical domains requiring precision and speed. I feel like this naming scheme is growing a little tired. o1 is for general knowledge reasoning, o3-mini replaces o1-mini but might be more specialized than o1 for certain technical domains...the "o" in "4o" is for "omni" (referring to its mult…

They really need someone in marketing.

If the model is for technical stuff, then call it the technical model. How is anyone supposed to know what these model names mean?

The only page of theirs attempting to explain this is a total disaster. https://platform.openai.com/docs/models

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#56

Post by JadoJodo »

buyucu wrote: post #23

why should anyone use this when deepseek is free/cheaper? openai is no longer relevant.

I'm going to assume the best in your question and disregard your statement.

Reasons to use o3 when deepseek is free/cheaper:

- Some companies/users may already have integrated heavily with OpenAI

- The expanded feature-set (e.g., function-calling, search) could be very powerful

- DeepSeek has deep ties to the Chinese Communist Party and, while the US has its own blackspots, the "steering" of information is far more prevalent in their models

- Local/national regulations might not allow for using DeepSeek due to data privacy concerns

- "free" isn't always better

I'm sure others have better reasons

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#57

Post by georgewsinger »

Did anyone else notice that o3-mini's SWE bench dropped from 61% in the leaked System Card earlier today to 49.3% in this blog post, which puts o3-mini back in line with Claude on real-world coding tasks?

Am I missing something?

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#59

Post by seinecle »

ilaksh wrote: post #35
buyucu wrote: post #23

why should anyone use this when deepseek is free/cheaper? openai is no longer relevant.

I don't think OpenAI is training on your data. At least they say they don't, and I believe that. I wouldn't be surprised if the NSA or something has access to data if they request it or something though. But DeepSeek clearly states in their terms of service that they can train on your API data or use it for other purposes. Which one might assume their government can access as well. We need direct eval comparisons bet…

Yes but DeepSeek models can be accessed through the APIs of Cloudflare or GitHub, in which case no training on your data takes place.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#60

Post by msp26 »

I wish they'd just reveal the CoT (like gemini and deepseek do), it's very helpful to see when the model gets misled by something in your prompt. Paying for tokens you aren't even allowed to see is peak OpenAI.
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