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Miles Davis – blind listening test

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Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#51

Post by colomon »

jamestc wrote: post #41

It's interesting that this sort of thing is seen as a guy slagging records rather than a man just giving his (educated and experienced) opinion, like many others who are dedicated to their craft tend to do. We can't be that bogged down with fake sincerity/showmanship that this is seen as novel or particularly harsh, can we? I don't know. There's nothing pompous about this. He sounds like me when I listen to a thing o…

Yes! Many commenters here seem to assume he is being hyper-critical of minor details. But to me it reads like someone who legitimately thinks many of these recordings are really sad attempts at playing jazz. I'm not far enough immersed in jazz to be able to tell if I'd agree or not.

But it feels very much like the criticisms I hear all the time in the Irish traditional music scene. I recently listened to a bunch of sound samples from a duo recording by two top Irish musicians. It sounded like two great musicians playing at the same time, rather than an actual duo. The difference was probably all things that someone who wasn't experienced with the field would never notice. For instance, the tiny internal rhythms of the tunes were not syncing up.

My guess is that Davis is hearing things like that in the recordings and legitimately complaining about them, rather than just being hyper-critical. Especially the "What am I supposed to say to that? That’s ridiculous. You see the way they can fuck up music? It’s a mismatch. They don’t complement each other," comment on "Caravan". He sounds really disappointed that three musicians he loves aren't making better music together.

Edited to add: I believe the album in question is Money Jungle. Just listened to a sample from that track. I think I can hear what Davis is talking about, but that might be the power of suggestion. That said, the album as a whole has lots of really favorable reviews on Amazon.com...

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#52

Post by keithpeter »

joydeepdg wrote: post #42
gruseom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lord help us if everything unscientific is useless.

On the contrary, anything unscientific is great. I am a musician myself and I find proof based scientific discussions very claustrophobic at times. All I am trying to say is, in this case, the article is a bunch of opinion from a Jazz musician about fellow Jazz musicians and bands. How does this fit in with other HN threads? I would say that something like Frank Zappa on censorship [1] [2] is much more suited to HN d…

" I am a musician myself and I find proof based scientific discussions very claustrophobic at times."

How do you rate the musicians you play with?

I have to make judgements about students and (at this time of year) prospective students in terms of which course and which level to allocate them to.

I imagine that the founders of a startup who are responding to a sudden increase in use/market have to make judgements about their colleagues when scaling up the responsibilties.

The way Davis is making judgements about his peers and the particular recordings shows something about his approach.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#53

Post by kree10 »

cubicle67 wrote: post #33
ynniv wrote: post #4

Perhaps it was editorial, but in this interview if Miles likes it he knows exactly who did it, and if not, why he doesn't like it. It could be that he just didn't like things he wasn't familiar with, but it's likely that he had a clear sense of style and was versed enough to know his industry. If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails, but know exactly why the bad decisions were made.

If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails oooh, them's fightin' words... If languages were music, Rails would be something gloriously bombastic like Dream Theater's live performance of Six Degrees on their Score album. C would be BB King - timeless and simple yet complex. I think Perl would be that guy with the funny haircut who sounds like a modem

This made me smile, but I think Perl is more like Robert Pollard/Guided by Voices. Both seem like kind of a mess to the uninitiated (and even the initiated). Both hit their stride in the mid-90s. And both are still around, remain influential, and are just as productive today, even if they have a lower profile.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#54

Post by mattacular »

SwellJoe wrote: post #28
jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

Ok all that is great I am still not seeing the connection to HN.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#55

Post by VMG »

SwellJoe wrote: post #36
joydeepdg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the points you make, but I really don't see anything but (unscientific) opinions in the linked article. This article says nothing about why Miles was a good businessman or expound on his leadership skills. All it gives us is insight into his taste in composition styles. That, coupled with the fact that music is a highly unscientific endeavor and the reasons he gives for disliking some of the works might…

I found it interesting. And, I see parallels to Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Both of whom are merciless critics. Does that make it "HN-worthy"? I dunno. It got voted up. I don't consider that a sure sign of worthiness...memes and jokes would also get voted up if they weren't ruthlessly removed by mods, and they definitely aren't HN-worthy. But, I suspect this has something to teach us...or at least provides interesting…

The fact that his band members were still loyal to him also parallels Steve Jobs: even though their character is often described as unpleasant, these people still retained their allies.

Also see this econtalk episode: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2012/06/jonah_lehrer_on.htm...

> And I thought about the following. Jobs and Dylan had something in common, which is they blurted out often cruel things to people around them, which we often call--as adults we call it selfish. [...]

> [Jonah Lehrer]: It all comes back. No, no, it's a fascinating question. What really interests me about that is, especially in terms of Steve Jobs, because I think we've got this epic biography of him at this point, is the way it complicates our traditional notions of self-control. I think we often think of self-control as domain-general : If you've got self-control, you can exert self-control in every facet of your life.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#56

Post by bryanlarsen »

jeroen wrote: post #6

It's the third out of four: http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_1.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_2.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_3.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_4.html

It's unfortunate that the submitter chose the most negative of the 4 to submit. Reading all 4 paints Miles in a much more balanced light.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#57

Post by Hrundi »

mattacular wrote: post #54
SwellJoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

Ok all that is great I am still not seeing the connection to HN.

"anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"

Found in http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'd say this definitely gratifies my intellectual curiosity, though I can understand if you don't feel the same.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#59

Post by scott_s »

mattacular wrote: post #54
SwellJoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

Ok all that is great I am still not seeing the connection to HN.

Then you haven't been here long enough. Give it time.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#60

Post by kenamarit »

jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

For me: I played a little bit of jazz band in college, and every single semester 30% of the band was made up of engineer students (my comp sci friends were comp sci students/jazz band members).

Miles was one of my first loves in high school. RE this article, he praises some of my favorites, and slams some of my favorites, so the upvote is because I never knew his take on these songs and players, so it's very enlightening!

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