Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review • Hacker News Board

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#51

Post by brisance » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 6:56 PM UTC

archangel_one wrote: post #37

brisance wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is why Jeremy Clarkson's reviews should not be the final arbiter of what constitutes a "good" car. The Boxster/Cayman has been consistently judged to be a better driver's car than the 911 because the engine is mounted in the right place to begin with. It's very much similar to Intel and the x86 architecture where its greatest success is keeping it from future greatness.

I think you've rather missed his point - it has nothing to do with how good the car is to drive or not, it's a judgment on what buying the car would say about your aspirations. As usual from Clarkson, it's extremely opinionated and nobody sensible would take it as the final arbiter on anything, although it is a unique and fairly perceptive take on the car.

In which case the poseurs driving 911s should go out and shoot themselves in the head since they can't afford a Carrera GT... which is also mid-engine.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#52

Post by brisance » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:11 PM UTC

pacaro wrote: post #32

brisance wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is why Jeremy Clarkson's reviews should not be the final arbiter of what constitutes a "good" car. The Boxster/Cayman has been consistently judged to be a better driver's car than the 911 because the engine is mounted in the right place to begin with. It's very much similar to Intel and the x86 architecture where its greatest success is keeping it from future greatness.

The key word here is "judged" - whether the boxster/cayman is a better car than the 911 is exactly that, a matter of judgement. An early 70's 911, all that weight hanging over/behind the skinny (by modern standards) rear wheels, no traction control - a joy to drive. That's just a judgement too!

No... read the quote again. "The ONLY reason you would buy one of these is because you can't afford a 911..."

He has it backwards. The only reason why the Boxster/Cayman is crippled as compared to the 911 is because the Porsche 911 "fans" are keeping it from becoming the best. If you go back far enough when they had the whole air-cooled vs water-cooled engine nonsense, it's the exact same thing.

You don't have to take my word for it. Ask the Porsche engineers why each subsequent iteration of the "best" 911, the GT3, has been shifting the engine closer to a midships layout.

Clarkson is not a car reviewer. He's an entertainer.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#53

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:32 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #47

I'm allergic to the "best product x Apple has ever built" line, it is such an obvious manipulative marketing spin. Of course every new device should be the best they ever built. All the components have been improved - it is just the way computer technology has progressed for a long time now. Also, it is just a slightly slimmer notebook with a higher resolution. It is not "changing computing as we have known it".

Yet, lots of manufacturers release products that back-slide from their predecessors.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#54

Post by bgentry » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

efraim wrote: post #42

albertzeyer wrote: post #40

I didn't realized until now that the Ethernet port is gone. I need that! That might actually be the main and only reason for me to not buy this. How sad, I really like the device otherwise.

They will be happy to sell you yet another adapter. http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/product/MC704ZM/A

The ethernet port takes up 100% of the edge thickness of the previous generation 15" MBP. Also, I'd guess that something like ~5% of users take advantage of it on a regular basis.

So why would Apple let that keep them from making the device thinner? If you really need it, pay the extra $30 for the Thunderbolt ethernet adapter and call it a day: http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/product/MD463ZM/A

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#55

Post by mwhawkins » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:38 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #47

I'm allergic to the "best product x Apple has ever built" line, it is such an obvious manipulative marketing spin. Of course every new device should be the best they ever built. All the components have been improved - it is just the way computer technology has progressed for a long time now. Also, it is just a slightly slimmer notebook with a higher resolution. It is not "changing computing as we have known it".

Even as a lifelong PC user, I tend to disagree somewhat. It's hardly just 'a higher resolution and thinner design' by a long shot. There is a lot more here, and I was a huge Apple sceptic in the past.

First of all, this is a powerhouse of a machine in a relatively small form factor. It's also one of the first 'mainstream' laptops to feature full-flash storage as stock and not as an available upgrade (ultra books excluded here - I'm talking laptops with serious power, not portable form). Also, there is nothing on the market even remotely close to the Retina display (yet). I'm blown away by its clarity. Its also the quietest laptop I have ever owned, has the best input (trackpad) device, decent battery life, and really good sound. The OS is first-rate, too and beats Windows in form and function handily (although, with a few minor complaints).

Full disclosure: The Retina MacBook Pro I'm typing this on is the first Apple computer I have ever bought in my 12+ years of professional IT experience. I've never owned an Apple device prior to this dating all the way back to the 80's. I also own three other PCs, most are relatively new, and for mobility I only own three or four Android devices thus far. Have been running either Windows or Linux for as long as I have been computing.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#56

Post by tedunangst » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:38 PM UTC

sounds wrote: post #48

efraim wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will be happy to sell you yet another adapter. http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/product/MC704ZM/A

Note: the ethernet chip _is_ present. In this article (anandtech) they look at Gigabit Ethernet performance and benchmark it at 925-928 Mbps - using the _Thunderbolt_ adapter. Over at the iFixit teardown (step #13), you can see that the ethernet chip is present on the I/O board: "Broadcom BCM57100 series Gigabit Ethernet + Memory Card reader controller" http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ...

I'd like to see a teardown of the adapter. My understanding of thunderbolt is it's not going to carry ethernet signals. There's another ethernet chip in the adapter (I think). The one on the motherboard is there primarily for the smart card reader and because it allows Apple to use the same chip on the laptops that do have ethernet jacks.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#57

Post by tvon » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:44 PM UTC

rfrey wrote: post #4

He's unsatisfied with his 'old' MBP 15" (previous gen) because "it always made me feel like the old fogey at tradeshows where everyone else had something 13-inches or smaller". Stuff like that defies parody.

I feel like you're taking it a bit too seriously, but I could be wrong.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#58

Post by MrFoof » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:45 PM UTC

brisance wrote: post #52

pacaro wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key word here is "judged" - whether the boxster/cayman is a better car than the 911 is exactly that, a matter of judgement. An early 70's 911, all that weight hanging over/behind the skinny (by modern standards) rear wheels, no traction control - a joy to drive. That's just a judgement too!

No... read the quote again. "The ONLY reason you would buy one of these is because you can't afford a 911..." He has it backwards. The only reason why the Boxster/Cayman is crippled as compared to the 911 is because the Porsche 911 "fans" are keeping it from becoming the best. If you go back far enough when they had the whole air-cooled vs water-cooled engine nonsense, it's the exact same thing. You don't have to tak…

To be fair, some of it is Porsche being a low-volume manufacturer for as long as they were, until the introduction of the Cayenne. Porsche has long stood by its practice of ensuring they make no less than $10,000 front-end on every car they sell. The fact the Cayman came into existence at all was a bit of a surprise -- that's a car that sells in far fewer numbers than the 911. Even in its last model year, fewer than 1300 Caymans made its way to the US, a tremendously small number for a car that starts around $55,000.

The Cayenne (and to a lesser extent, the Panamera and the upcoming Macan) increasing overall sales volume is what is allowing them to loosen the reigns on the Boxster and Cayman. Upon launch the Type 987 Cayman did not have a limited-slip differential. The refresh did, and now the Type 981 Boxster offers the same torque-vectoring rear diff as the Type 991 911 from Day 1. Porschephiles aren't a fan of the SUVs and the… thing… that is the Panamera, but the reality is it lets Porsche further improve its sports cars, and go on crazier exercises in racing and allow for more hyper cars like the 918 Spyder.

The Type 987.2 Boxster Spyder and Cayman R were faster around a road course than the base Type 997.2 911 Carrera, despite being significantly cheaper. Odds are good that this trend will continue with the Type 981 which is further straying from the 911 -- the original Boxster (and even the Type 987) was a cost-control exercise and was heavily parts-binned from the Type 996 911, down to the doors being identical.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#59

Post by Tichy » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:47 PM UTC

mwhawkins wrote: post #55

Tichy wrote: post #47

I'm allergic to the "best product x Apple has ever built" line, it is such an obvious manipulative marketing spin. Of course every new device should be the best they ever built. All the components have been improved - it is just the way computer technology has progressed for a long time now. Also, it is just a slightly slimmer notebook with a higher resolution. It is not "changing computing as we have known it".

Even as a lifelong PC user, I tend to disagree somewhat. It's hardly just 'a higher resolution and thinner design' by a long shot. There is a lot more here, and I was a huge Apple sceptic in the past. First of all, this is a powerhouse of a machine in a relatively small form factor. It's also one of the first 'mainstream' laptops to feature full-flash storage as stock and not as an available upgrade (ultra books excl…

Of course it is better than most (maybe all) notebooks that came before it. But only slightly better. There have been slim notebooks with fast CPUs and even GPUs before. There have also been very high resolution displays (probably not as high as "retina", but still). The higher resolution is nice, but will it lead to completely new applications that have not been possible before?

I have switched over to SSDs for quite a while now - it's nice that Apple does not even offer normal HDs anymore, but again, not a game changer.

The rest of your post reads a bit like a marketing spin ("great sound"??) - to be honest I wonder if you were hired to scour the internet for discussion threads of the MBP and chime in with your anecdotes. Realistically speaking, companies must be doing this already.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#60

Post by Tichy » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 7:48 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #53

Tichy wrote: post #47

I'm allergic to the "best product x Apple has ever built" line, it is such an obvious manipulative marketing spin. Of course every new device should be the best they ever built. All the components have been improved - it is just the way computer technology has progressed for a long time now. Also, it is just a slightly slimmer notebook with a higher resolution. It is not "changing computing as we have known it".

Yet, lots of manufacturers release products that back-slide from their predecessors.

Give examples? I heard a lot of complaints about ThinkPads, but I think that was when they were no longer being made by IBM. Sure, it happens - but I suppose typically if the manufacturer as whole is in decline.