Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review • Hacker News Board

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#31

Post by Ogre » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:03 PM UTC

mwhawkins wrote: post #9

mikelbring wrote: post #7

So how will my code editor look on Retina? All blurry?

That is the issue I am having. Eclipse-based IDEs are not ready for Retina. The text is legible, the IDE is usable, but its noticeably blurry. I've logged a ticket with Aptana Studio and Eclipse, but they have no solution to this issue, just workarounds which don't really work. If you are using Vim or a simple text editor, however, there is no issue with the appearance of the text. Xcode works just fine, too.

There's another option. You can get a third party utility like SwitchResX ($, but the free ones didn't work very well when I tried them) and run your display at native resolution. Yes, you get a full 2880x1800 desktop, and yes, some things get terribly small. But, you can then set your font sizes larger in things you use all the time, and I find the really small stuff to still be readable, maybe just not pleasant for long term use.

I am running that way right now, using Firefox zoomed in slightly, and it works beautifully. SwitchResX lets you set up hot keys to switch resolutions too, so I've been switching back and forth between 1920x1200 and native resolution trying to decide what I like best. So far, I think 2880x1800 is winning, with Firefox zoomed in, and a 14 point font (Inconsolata) in Emacs and iTerm2. Though both of the latter work correctly at Apple's scaled resolutions already (I've so far settled on Inconsolata 11 at 1920x1200)

For me, the biggest thing that's changed is that I've used Monaco 9, or variants thereof on non-Apple platforms, as my code font for the last 15 years. This was already too small for some people to read, and I've had hotkeys set up to switch to larger fonts when showing other people code on my screen for years. Monaco 9 doesn't even really exist at scaled resolutions though - it is NOT the same font you get if you render any other point size of Monaco, which is what happens at Apple's scaled resolutions. "Monaco 9" looks like the rest of Monaco now. (Techincally the old pixel version does still exist when running at native resolution, but it's crazy small and although I can read it with some effort, it's not really practical). But the screen is so great that I'm finally over my obsession with pixel fonts. Inconsolata is a fantastic tiny font when the pixels are too small to see. I'll probably try a few more now that I've been liberated, that was just the best I happened to have installed already.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#32

Post by pacaro » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:05 PM UTC

brisance wrote: post #25

arihant wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's signature style of a lot of great, obsessive reviewers. Connecting to what a particular product ultimately "means" to you is something that differentiates reviews from spec-sheets. This reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson on Porsche Boxster - "The only reason you would buy one of these is because you can't afford a 911... so what you're doing as you're driving around is advertising the fact that your life hasn't wor…

And that is why Jeremy Clarkson's reviews should not be the final arbiter of what constitutes a "good" car. The Boxster/Cayman has been consistently judged to be a better driver's car than the 911 because the engine is mounted in the right place to begin with. It's very much similar to Intel and the x86 architecture where its greatest success is keeping it from future greatness.

The key word here is "judged" - whether the boxster/cayman is a better car than the 911 is exactly that, a matter of judgement.

An early 70's 911, all that weight hanging over/behind the skinny (by modern standards) rear wheels, no traction control - a joy to drive. That's just a judgement too!

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#33

Post by Kerrick » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:06 PM UTC

I didn't realize Apple was pushing graphics so hard the past few years just to get to a point where retina-level resolution was possible at these sizes.

Funny, it reminds me a bit of the big push Vista caused in hardware manufacturers to stop stagnating on the amount of RAM considered 'normal' in computers.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#34

Post by kylec » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:11 PM UTC

Ogre wrote: post #31

mwhawkins wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the issue I am having. Eclipse-based IDEs are not ready for Retina. The text is legible, the IDE is usable, but its noticeably blurry. I've logged a ticket with Aptana Studio and Eclipse, but they have no solution to this issue, just workarounds which don't really work. If you are using Vim or a simple text editor, however, there is no issue with the appearance of the text. Xcode works just fine, too.

There's another option. You can get a third party utility like SwitchResX ($, but the free ones didn't work very well when I tried them) and run your display at native resolution. Yes, you get a full 2880x1800 desktop, and yes, some things get terribly small. But, you can then set your font sizes larger in things you use all the time, and I find the really small stuff to still be readable, maybe just not pleasant for…

If you're using the "best for retina" resolution, you can get Monaco 9 on the native pixels by selecting Monaco 4.5. It will be extremely small, but if you have good eyes it should still be readable, more readable than anti-aliased fonts at that size anyway.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#35

Post by kingnothing » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:23 PM UTC

Historiopode wrote: post #21

mikelbring wrote: post #7

So how will my code editor look on Retina? All blurry?

Yes, they will need to be updated, for the most part. I am fairly sure that Sublime Text 2 was Retina-ready after a couple of days from Apple's announcement, though.

Can anyone confirm on ST2? That's one factor holding me back from pulling the trigger on a rMPB.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#36

Post by kingnothing » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:27 PM UTC

Ogre wrote: post #31

mwhawkins wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the issue I am having. Eclipse-based IDEs are not ready for Retina. The text is legible, the IDE is usable, but its noticeably blurry. I've logged a ticket with Aptana Studio and Eclipse, but they have no solution to this issue, just workarounds which don't really work. If you are using Vim or a simple text editor, however, there is no issue with the appearance of the text. Xcode works just fine, too.

There's another option. You can get a third party utility like SwitchResX ($, but the free ones didn't work very well when I tried them) and run your display at native resolution. Yes, you get a full 2880x1800 desktop, and yes, some things get terribly small. But, you can then set your font sizes larger in things you use all the time, and I find the really small stuff to still be readable, maybe just not pleasant for…

I'm curious to see what new fonts might be in the works for retina displays. Most (all?) existing fixed-width fonts seem to have legibility on low-res displays as a major design consideration. Since that factor is now eliminated, could we be in for some awesome new typefaces?

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#37

Post by archangel_one » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:30 PM UTC

brisance wrote: post #25

arihant wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's signature style of a lot of great, obsessive reviewers. Connecting to what a particular product ultimately "means" to you is something that differentiates reviews from spec-sheets. This reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson on Porsche Boxster - "The only reason you would buy one of these is because you can't afford a 911... so what you're doing as you're driving around is advertising the fact that your life hasn't wor…

And that is why Jeremy Clarkson's reviews should not be the final arbiter of what constitutes a "good" car. The Boxster/Cayman has been consistently judged to be a better driver's car than the 911 because the engine is mounted in the right place to begin with. It's very much similar to Intel and the x86 architecture where its greatest success is keeping it from future greatness.

I think you've rather missed his point - it has nothing to do with how good the car is to drive or not, it's a judgment on what buying the car would say about your aspirations. As usual from Clarkson, it's extremely opinionated and nobody sensible would take it as the final arbiter on anything, although it is a unique and fairly perceptive take on the car.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#38

Post by Ogre » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:34 PM UTC

kylec wrote: post #34

Ogre wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another option. You can get a third party utility like SwitchResX ($, but the free ones didn't work very well when I tried them) and run your display at native resolution. Yes, you get a full 2880x1800 desktop, and yes, some things get terribly small. But, you can then set your font sizes larger in things you use all the time, and I find the really small stuff to still be readable, maybe just not pleasant for…

If you're using the "best for retina" resolution, you can get Monaco 9 on the native pixels by selecting Monaco 4.5. It will be extremely small, but if you have good eyes it should still be readable, more readable than anti-aliased fonts at that size anyway.

Hey thanks for that. I wasn't aware I could type smaller sizes into the font selector. It doesn't seem to work very well though. iTerm2 still renders a scaled font when I do that. Terminal does render the bitmap font, but bold text is all screwed up - apparently it's bolding by rendering twice, slightly offset - only that offset is now multiple pixels, so it doesn't look bold, it looks like two overlapping renders. Emacs has issues with the font selector dialog in general, and doesn't appear to accept typed values at all. Further, when setting the font the normal emacs way (using an X11-like font description), it errors out when trying to give it a font with a fractional size. Monaco 5 does work, but it's not quite right.

Anyway, I wasn't really trying to get Monaco 9 back, I'm actually happy I can use "real" fonts now and still get as much code as I'm used to on screen.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#39

Post by graeme » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 5:42 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #28

Gring wrote: post #23

The "glare handling" pictures makes me wonder why anybody would buy a portable device (=to sometimes be used outdoors) and be happy with those outrageous reflections. I mean, you can barely see the content! http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-w... With the new decice, Aplle again tries to makes those unusable mirrors the only display you can order. I'll pass.

Not everyone buys a portable device to use it outdoors. Some people just like moving room to room indoors.

I often switch between:

* office desk * standing desk (really an ikea shelf) * kitchen table * couch * cafe (very easy to carry)

Have a three pound computer means I don't even have to think about these switches.

Re: Anandtech: Macbook Pro with Retina Display Review

#40

Post by albertzeyer » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 6:07 PM UTC

I didn't realized until now that the Ethernet port is gone. I need that! That might actually be the main and only reason for me to not buy this. How sad, I really like the device otherwise.