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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#51

Post by kelsey98765431 »

> jpost.com

> • 5 hours ago

> Pavel Durov, Telegram founder, arrested by France following warrant - The Jerusalem Post

> The alleged offenses include: terrorism, narcotic supply, fraud, money laundering and receiving stolen goods.

For those unaware, all channel on telegram are NOT ENCRYPTED. They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers. All chats that are not 'secret chat' mode (single device to single device) are NOT ENCRYPTED (stored in plaintext on server).

This is not about encryption, it is about the plaintext data and the organized crime happening in these channels.

Signal group chats ARE ENCRYPTED by default. It is actually not possible to send an unencrypted message on signal. This will not pivot into an E2E issue, and will not affect signal which has set itself up to not store unencrypted content on it's servers.

EDIT: Also possibly this may be a factor in the decision to arrest:

> finance.yahoo.com

> • 2 weeks ago

> Telegram adds new ways for creators to earn money on its platform

> Today's announcement comes as Telegram reached 950 million active users last month, and aims to cross the 1 billion mark this year. Earlier this year, Telegram founder Pavel Durov said the company expects to hit profitability next year and is considering going public.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#52

Post by marcinzm »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Because those providers cooperate with authorities and moderate their content to a fairly large degree?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#53

Post by lynndotpy »

Aspos wrote: post #15
Krasnol wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram doesn't have much to do with E2EE.

Can you, please, elaborate? Wasn't it their main feature and the selling point?

Telegram's E2EE isn't available for group chats. It's not on by default for other chats, so most or all of your chats are probably just transport encrypted. Further, they rolled their own crypto (bad), MTProto2, which has a number of problems (but is not necessarily broken)

This places Telegram's security stance below that of even Instagram or Facebook (which also has optional E2EE chats, but uses the Signal protocol, which is considered better than MTProto2.)

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#55

Post by kdmtctl »

tail_exchange wrote: post #18

I'm genuinely curious to what would happen with Signal if the same bad actors moved to their platform. Would France also be arresting its creators for not properly moderating and giving backdoors?

Telegram does store chats and channels on servers. Signal doesn't. I wonder Durov managed to stay between Scylla and Charybdis that long.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#56

Post by firesteelrain »

mpeg wrote: post #49
pathless wrote: post #6

Telegram is genuinely the best general communication platform I have ever used, by far. I really hope he has a good lawyer and this doesn't end up getting essentially murdered for creating it. When you create something that is objectively great, everyone will use it - including bad actors.

I use telegram for some group chats, but I'm not sure why tech-savvy people would like it so much – messages are not end-to-end encrypted which makes it an inferior choice compared to even whatsapp

I prefer Signal and it provides encryption.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#57

Post by tail_exchange »

raverbashing wrote: post #34
tail_exchange wrote: post #18

I'm genuinely curious to what would happen with Signal if the same bad actors moved to their platform. Would France also be arresting its creators for not properly moderating and giving backdoors?

Signal always sounded like they have better lawyers and are not as antagonistic. Police work is not only about encryption. But a lot of it involves metadata. And you know, just booting bad actors from the platform. They also don't have public groups with questionable material, as far as I know

Signal is also a lot smaller. Telegram has over 1B users, while Signal has 40M. These optics could just be a product of the size of the user base.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#58

Post by itohihiyt »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

The difference is telegram wasn't cooperating with authorities in the jurisdictions in which it was operating; be that moderation, interception, etc.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#59

Post by mpeg »

jsheard wrote: post #19
bagels wrote: post #10

What is the difference between telegram and cell phone providers other than encryption in relation to these charges?

Cell phones are encrypted over the air, but they aren't end to end encrypted, and it's safe to assume that a provider will wiretap the plaintext passing through their backend if the authorities ask for it.

Telegram is not end-to-end encrypted in the way other messaging services are (whatsapp, signal), it is encrypted but Telegram holds the keys and are able to decrypt any messages not sent on a "secret chat" which is not the default, or any messages on a group chat

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#60

Post by Rinzler89 »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

It's called selective enforcement.
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