Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

techdirt.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 224 posts

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#51

Post by k8svet »

nox101 wrote: post #34

I know people disagree with me about this. I certainly hate it that governments gave local monopolies to companies like Comcast That said, I'm pretty confident municipal internet is bad thing in the long run (compared to actually competitive markets, not local monopolies) Problems: (1) Unlike say, water, sewage, power - internet tech changes 10gig might seem fast today. In 15 years it will seem slow. Will the governm…

Lol, wow, I'd put 90% of my net worth into a bet against this take if I could. I don't even know where to start, gestures around, reality is here, now.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#52

Post by paranoidrobot »

nox101 wrote: post #34

I know people disagree with me about this. I certainly hate it that governments gave local monopolies to companies like Comcast That said, I'm pretty confident municipal internet is bad thing in the long run (compared to actually competitive markets, not local monopolies) Problems: (1) Unlike say, water, sewage, power - internet tech changes 10gig might seem fast today. In 15 years it will seem slow. Will the governm…

This might be a case of "nobody needs more than 640k of memory", but well deployed fiber has a very very long upgrade path.

As I understand it, switching out optics and equipment on each end for faster versions is relatively simple (vs digging it up and replacing the cable).

If it's active fiber, then you should be able to put 100Gb+ optics and equipment and be good to go.

If it's PON fiber then it might be a little different, but not drastically.

As for the government vs corporate thing... Physical infrastructure is hard to get good competitive environments in. They're pretty rare, and become increasingly so as companies merge or get acquired.

It's very difficult to get new competitors into a market because of how capital and red-tape intense the process is.

Few people are happy with roads and lawns being dug up, existing competitors have a motive to swing legislation to their advantage.

Running physical infrastructure as an open platform that anyone can access is IMO a better approach.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#53

Post by warcher »

nox101 wrote: post #34

I know people disagree with me about this. I certainly hate it that governments gave local monopolies to companies like Comcast That said, I'm pretty confident municipal internet is bad thing in the long run (compared to actually competitive markets, not local monopolies) Problems: (1) Unlike say, water, sewage, power - internet tech changes 10gig might seem fast today. In 15 years it will seem slow. Will the governm…

Sorry homie, utopia is ten years old. Check the date. People freaking love it. Still.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#54

Post by FredPret »

mikeyouse wrote: post #40
nox101 wrote: post #34

I know people disagree with me about this. I certainly hate it that governments gave local monopolies to companies like Comcast That said, I'm pretty confident municipal internet is bad thing in the long run (compared to actually competitive markets, not local monopolies) Problems: (1) Unlike say, water, sewage, power - internet tech changes 10gig might seem fast today. In 15 years it will seem slow. Will the governm…

This is a pretty silly comment given the "private" options that could have been at gbps speed for a decade+ are still at DSL and Cable speeds. Blind faith in 'the market' to solve these things after it's failed to do so seems odd.

The market works when there's at least 4-5 competitors. That's enough to make monopolistic backroom deals impractical.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#55

Post by akie »

ethbr1 wrote: post #47
mikeyouse wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty silly comment given the "private" options that could have been at gbps speed for a decade+ are still at DSL and Cable speeds. Blind faith in 'the market' to solve these things after it's failed to do so seems odd.

Parent's argument wasn't that the existent private market was great, but rather that a public utility monopolizing the market might not be great in the future.

Many of these remote areas are barely being served by companies at the moment because they’re not profitable (enough). Why would anyone object to the people just doing it themselves instead? That way at least they’re not at the mercy of some company that needs to earn a dime.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#56

Post by addicted »

nox101 wrote: post #34

I know people disagree with me about this. I certainly hate it that governments gave local monopolies to companies like Comcast That said, I'm pretty confident municipal internet is bad thing in the long run (compared to actually competitive markets, not local monopolies) Problems: (1) Unlike say, water, sewage, power - internet tech changes 10gig might seem fast today. In 15 years it will seem slow. Will the governm…

Tell me you haven’t read the article without telling me you haven’t read the article.

This article is talking about something that was created 15 years ago. So your “come back to me in 10 years” comment is 5 years too late.

And turns out if it wasn’t late it would have been dead wrong.

You have fully failed to understand the concept that is described here, which is still private internet service, with the government simply providing the open access infrastructure.

Also, thanks to the open access concept the customers have a choice between what appears to be 18 different ISPs. I doubt there’s a single other area in the U.S. that provides that much choice.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#57

Post by Nursie »

nox101 wrote: post #34

I know people disagree with me about this. I certainly hate it that governments gave local monopolies to companies like Comcast That said, I'm pretty confident municipal internet is bad thing in the long run (compared to actually competitive markets, not local monopolies) Problems: (1) Unlike say, water, sewage, power - internet tech changes 10gig might seem fast today. In 15 years it will seem slow. Will the governm…

These complaints can be levelled against private net companies as well, particularly in the USA it seems.

> Come back to this comment and in 10 years. See what speed competitive markets are at and compare to municipal and non-competitive markets.

The sleight of hand here is amazing - "See what speed competitive markets are at" - the US doesn't really have competitive markets, it has monopolistic markets, and they seem to be a prime cause of the very issues you're concerned about. The article you've replied to is talking about encouraging competitive markets by opening up locally-owned last-mile infrastructure to ISP competition.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#58

Post by fragmede »

theyeenzbeanz wrote: post #15

Comcast lobbied so hard to get our local mileage for fiber expansion voted down. When it passed, they suddenly decided they’re going to spend 6 figures worth of money to expand their own fiber backdown (they’re not even to the house). Its amazing when corporations will spend more money fighting something than actually implementing said thing.

when you can simplify things down to a number on a spreadsheet, it's a simple math equation. It doesn't make sense if you step back and look at what's actually best, but money warps everything it touches.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#59

Post by ncallaway »

nox101 wrote: post #34

I know people disagree with me about this. I certainly hate it that governments gave local monopolies to companies like Comcast That said, I'm pretty confident municipal internet is bad thing in the long run (compared to actually competitive markets, not local monopolies) Problems: (1) Unlike say, water, sewage, power - internet tech changes 10gig might seem fast today. In 15 years it will seem slow. Will the governm…

> (2) Government run internet is bound to eventually be lobbied to be safe

This would be a clear cut first amendment violation. These kinds of things would be less likely to be restricted by a government ISP than a private party ISP.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#60

Post by fragmede »

lokar wrote: post #10
dheera wrote: post #5

Meanwhile I live 20 minutes from Google's heardquarters and I can't even get more than 25 Mbps uplink. Maybe these big internet companies should dig up all the infrastructure in their home turf and replace it?

This came up at lot at google when they launched fiber. CA regulation and environmental laws make it to easy for the monopolies to stop or slow you down. If you look at how they pick cities the main criteria is friendly regulations like “one touch make ready” requirements.

all the technology in the world ain't gonna fix our social issues.
Post reply on HN