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Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

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Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#51

Post by wilsonnb3 »

pushfoo wrote: post #47
ekianjo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if VR is about having virtual monitors then thats not a Very enticing proposition

It's about being able to display information anywhere . Many work tasks consist of using reference material to do something else. This isn't limited to the office. > thats not a Very enticing proposition Consider the following use cases: * A surgical team consulting a 3D CT scan as they remove the tumor threatening to kill you or someone you love * A firefighter who can overlay a building's plans over thick smoke * A…

I feel like these examples, and most examples of what AR is good for, are largely based on what looks cool in movies rather than what is actually more effective than looking at a screen or having someone speaking in your ear.

AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods.

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#52

Post by wilsonnb3 »

Animats wrote: post #42
andsoitis wrote: post #39

…ego rush, because they often couldn’t grasp what was being said or what had just happened to them. It was a primal validation, a power trip, and I wish I had done it with more humility. Someone is still on this journey.

> Someone is still on this journey. Yeah, that's Jaron Lanier. Apple's headset isn't VR at all. It's stuff overlaid on the real world. Rather banal stuff, usually screens. That's augmented reality. The hardware ought to be able to support most of the stuff Magic Leap faked a few years ago. Since you see the world through cameras, they can draw dark, which optical overlay systems cannot do. Someone will probably do so…

> Apple's headset isn't VR at all

Yes, it is VR, no matter how much Apple wants to avoid saying that.

Reading all the reviews, the thing most people agree it is good for is immersive media consumption, which is definitely VR.

You cant go 10 comments in a post about it without people saying they want to use it on an airplane to block out their surroundings, which is again VR.

Even 90% of the functionality people claim is AR is really about having a virtual computer monitor that isn't interacting with the real world, which is more mixed reality than augmented reality.

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#53

Post by vonjuice »

pushfoo wrote: post #48
sjwhevvvvvsj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the added benefit of neck strain!

We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. I know it's not likely in the nearest future, but I'm still hopeful we might be less sore if headsets become both light and common enough.

> We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics.

And this would make it even worse.

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#54

Post by vonjuice »

kalkr wrote: post #43

> Can the everyday miracle of the real world be appreciated enough? I always roll my eyes when I see this or things that share a similar sentiment. I have dreams every night that aren't "real", but produce real emotions, feelings, and sensations. Whenever the dream machine comes out, I'll be hanging out in my cool af castle and all you philosophers can keep kneecapping yourselves with "what's really real".

I think that in this context what it means is that it's something fabricated and put on flat screens. Quite literally there's no depth to it.

Dreams are another beast entirely, you're fabricating and perceiving the contents at once, like you say, with all the senses.

VR takes advantage of our vision being so prevalent among our senses, but the fact that only it and sound are involved is what makes it fake.

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#55

Post by XorNot »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #51
pushfoo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about being able to display information anywhere . Many work tasks consist of using reference material to do something else. This isn't limited to the office. > thats not a Very enticing proposition Consider the following use cases: * A surgical team consulting a 3D CT scan as they remove the tumor threatening to kill you or someone you love * A firefighter who can overlay a building's plans over thick smoke * A…

I feel like these examples, and most examples of what AR is good for, are largely based on what looks cool in movies rather than what is actually more effective than looking at a screen or having someone speaking in your ear. AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods.

Monitors anywhere though is useful, the issue is that the technology to it isn't there. The 4K monitor I have sitting about 45cm from my face needs a 16K monitor sitting 5cm from my eyeballs to be adequately emulated.

The problem is "virtual" monitors in VR aren't high enough FOV or resolution to be as useful as real monitors.

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#56

Post by EForEndeavour »

ta8645 wrote: post #28
bee_rider wrote: post #9

> Life within a construction is life without a frontier. It is closed, calculated, and pointless. Reality, real reality, the mysterious physical stuff, is open, unknown, and beyond us; we must not lose it. Only a tiny minority of people have lived on a frontier, that’s sort of the inherent to the definition. Most people now live in a very constructed environment (urban areas). In the past, most people lived somewhere…

Virtual reality will be the ultimate CAPTCHA system. Virtual scenarios can be constructed to motivate and engage the VR user, while simultaneously mapping to a real problem to be solved for the operator. In a way, every user will be helping to push forward in some (perhaps unknown to them) frontier.

Remember, the enemy's gate is down.

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#57

Post by EForEndeavour »

vonjuice wrote: post #53
pushfoo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. I know it's not likely in the nearest future, but I'm still hopeful we might be less sore if headsets become both light and common enough.

> We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. And this would make it even worse.

Why? Wouldn't you be able to position virtual displays however you like, and view them from many more body positions than is possible with physical displays?

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#58

Post by pushfoo »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #51
pushfoo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about being able to display information anywhere . Many work tasks consist of using reference material to do something else. This isn't limited to the office. > thats not a Very enticing proposition Consider the following use cases: * A surgical team consulting a 3D CT scan as they remove the tumor threatening to kill you or someone you love * A firefighter who can overlay a building's plans over thick smoke * A…

I feel like these examples, and most examples of what AR is good for, are largely based on what looks cool in movies rather than what is actually more effective than looking at a screen or having someone speaking in your ear. AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods.

TL;DR: I agree and favor the "boring" uses, but chose emotional examples since GP sounded disappointed by those

I intentionally chose heroic examples because GP's viewpoint is understandable. Not everyone is as excited by window management and good UI as I am.

OP's article touched on attention management through UI a little bit, but I think that concern isn't given enough attention. Using the most heroic scenarios possible helps drive the point home without getting grim, but I will now. To be blunt, it's a historical fact that bad UI kills people [1][2].

> AR definitely has real industrial uses but 90% of the examples people can think of are not better or are worse than current methods.

I agree completely. My main concern is pinning manuals or reference sheets next to my work, even if paper fallback is still crucial. That's pretty much the use case for multi-monitor anyway.

The surgical example is the same thing: CT scans are used to tell the surgeons where it's ok to cut. However, there's an extra benefit here: reducing the need for a physical 3D print of the skull reduces infection risk. It's one less thing to moved into and out of the OR.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25

2. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/uss-m...

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#59

Post by pushfoo »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #57
vonjuice wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. And this would make it even worse.

Why? Wouldn't you be able to position virtual displays however you like, and view them from many more body positions than is possible with physical displays?

I think GP's taking the pessimistic view that the VR headset will be forced on the user for cost-cutting reasons. It's a real worry, but I was taking the optimistic view where I can choose where and how I set up my workspace enough to be comfortable.

Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?

#60

Post by treprinum »

nox101 wrote: post #40
spcebar wrote: post #7

I like this article. It expands on the big question for VR. We have this technology, it's here, it's mostly good enough (with the caveats the article lays out) for a variety of purposes. But what is the purpose consumers will want to use it for? Apple has been the king of telling consumers what they want for years. If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR. This feels like the make or break moment for V…

They want it for pr0n! Just like they wanted VCRs for pr0n. Super tangential but this documentary is about pr0n going mainstream https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ In it they point out in the 70s how the movie the documentary is about was a huge public topic of discussion. They show Phil Donahue actually telling people to go see it (or at least I remember that in my memory. If it wasn't him it was some other house…

VR pr0n is nasty because one can see all imperfections that Photoshop/Portaiture would instantly remove on 2D imagery/movies, breaking the spell. I would rather watch travel documentaries to choose my next vacation or interesting places I'd never see otherwise, like climbing something in Himalayas, visiting Galapagos, Antarctica etc. Visualizing my next house before it's built with all the views to/from the outside would be great as well.
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