I like this article. It expands on the big question for VR. We have this technology, it's here, it's mostly good enough (with the caveats the article lays out) for a variety of purposes. But what is the purpose consumers will want to use it for? Apple has been the king of telling consumers what they want for years. If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR. This feels like the make or break moment for V…
They want it for pr0n! Just like they wanted VCRs for pr0n. Super tangential but this documentary is about pr0n going mainstream https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ In it they point out in the 70s how the movie the documentary is about was a huge public topic of discussion. They show Phil Donahue actually telling people to go see it (or at least I remember that in my memory. If it wasn't him it was some other house…
Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
41–50 of 79 posts
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#42…ego rush, because they often couldn’t grasp what was being said or what had just happened to them. It was a primal validation, a power trip, and I wish I had done it with more humility. Someone is still on this journey.
Yeah, that's Jaron Lanier.
Apple's headset isn't VR at all. It's stuff overlaid on the real world. Rather banal stuff, usually screens. That's augmented reality.
The hardware ought to be able to support most of the stuff Magic Leap faked a few years ago. Since you see the world through cameras, they can draw dark, which optical overlay systems cannot do. Someone will probably do some games that way. Pokemon Go would work.
Someone really should do Hyperreality, the famous concept video of AR hell.[1]
> There are many reasons why V.R. and gaming don’t quite work, and I suspect that one is that gamers like to be bigger than the game, not engulfed by it. You want to feel big, not small, when you play. (“Star Wars” might have got this right with holographic chess.)
Don't see that. VR about going some place more interesting than where you are.
As for tabletop AR combat chess, Jeri Ellsworth made that work quite well with Tilt Five.[2][3][4] Good idea, never really caught on.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#43I always roll my eyes when I see this or things that share a similar sentiment. I have dreams every night that aren't "real", but produce real emotions, feelings, and sensations. Whenever the dream machine comes out, I'll be hanging out in my cool af castle and all you philosophers can keep kneecapping yourselves with "what's really real".
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
They want it for pr0n! Just like they wanted VCRs for pr0n. Super tangential but this documentary is about pr0n going mainstream https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ In it they point out in the 70s how the movie the documentary is about was a huge public topic of discussion. They show Phil Donahue actually telling people to go see it (or at least I remember that in my memory. If it wasn't him it was some other house…
why are you saying pr0n instead of porn? lol
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#45On this line contrasting Apple's approach from Magic Leap's approach:
> Camera-based mixed reality is vastly easier to accomplish than the optical version, but it is concerning. Early research by a Stanford-led team has found evidence of cognitive challenges. Your hands are never quite in the right relationship with your eyes, for instance. Given what is going on with deepfakes out on the 2-D Internet, we also need to start worrying about deception and abuse, because reality can be so easily altered as it’s virtualized.
The two thoughts, cognitive challenges and deception, are unrelated. And Lanier spends no time saying why the optical version will be free of deepfakes. Instead he uses this piece of emotionally charged language to justify why the camera approach is inferior:
> Today, in much of the online world, algorithms calculate “feeds”—a term suggesting that people are cattle, and not free-range ones.
Again seemingly uninterested with engaging substantively with why the camera approach is worse than the optical one other than by making us feel, well, moral.
Then there's:
> Today, the V.R. community seems to want to make headsets smaller and smaller, until they disappear. But in the old days I’d build one-of-a-kind V.R. headsets into big masks from different cultures, sometimes adding lightning bolts and feathers. I wanted the headsets to be vibrant, exciting objects that enriched the real world, too.
It's unclear how much this is some shift in values vs simply a shift in aesthetic culture. The culture of the '80s and early-'90s was loud bikes, loud cars, big heavy computing, lots of cables. This isn't the aesthetic culture of today.
What confuses me the most is:
> There are fresh, urgent reasons to reaffirm the value of experience. It is impossible to judge technology without a sense of its purpose—and its only plausible purpose is to benefit people, or perhaps animals, or the over-all ecosystem of the planet. In any case, if we pursue technologies that make it hard to delineate the beneficiaries—for instance, by blending brains into robotics not to cure a disease but just because it seems cool—then we make the very idea of technology absurd.
Even though near the beginning Lanier says:
> V.R. can be a way of exploring the nature of consciousness, relationships, bodies, and, perception. In other words, it can be art. V.R. is most fun when approached that way.
So which is it? Must technology be anchored to a purpose or can it simply be art? The idea that technologies are purely utilitarian is surely not something people still believe right? Not after synthesizers, modded cars, modded motorcycles, personalized beatboxes, and the like?
Then there's:
> But the truth is that living in V.R. makes no sense. Life within a construction is life without a frontier. It is closed, calculated, and pointless. Reality, real reality, the mysterious physical stuff, is open, unknown, and beyond us; we must not lose it.
The average person in the developed world lives in a meticulously designed world. They ride some form of manmade transit or hop into some form of human constructed personal vehicle and go along infrastructure meticulously planned and designed to go to a destination whose very form has been prescribed by pages of municipal code and undergirded by large sums of public monies. They have access to sanitation systems, emergency services, and more. The average person does not spend time on some open frontier pondering their "real reality".
In general the article seems... like a weird, romantic, pastoral polemic steeped in the sort of romanticism common to older folks waxing about how the physical world is "real" while the virtual world is "fake."
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
They want it for pr0n! Just like they wanted VCRs for pr0n. Super tangential but this documentary is about pr0n going mainstream https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ In it they point out in the 70s how the movie the documentary is about was a huge public topic of discussion. They show Phil Donahue actually telling people to go see it (or at least I remember that in my memory. If it wasn't him it was some other house…
why are you saying pr0n instead of porn? lol
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
TL;DR: People want useful or fun, not "VR" > If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR Imagine having as many monitors as you need. Anywhere. Rearrange them whenever and however, even on airplanes! It all weighs under 1 pound (0.45 kg). How much would you pay? I'd pay at least $600. > where we'll know what people want to use it for/if it's capable of living in the mainstream A cheaper, better multi-moni…
if VR is about having virtual monitors then thats not a Very enticing proposition
> thats not a Very enticing proposition
Consider the following use cases:
* A surgical team consulting a 3D CT scan as they remove the tumor threatening to kill you or someone you love
* A firefighter who can overlay a building's plans over thick smoke
* A rescue helicopter pilot who can see LIDAR and IR data as needed
All of these are literally life-saving. However, office uses such as replacing multi-monitor desks are far more pleasant to encounter.
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
if VR is about having virtual monitors then thats not a Very enticing proposition
With the added benefit of neck strain!
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
why are you saying pr0n instead of porn? lol
Tiktok and other social media sites allegedly derank posts with controversial words (suicide, porn, murder) so people butcher the words to talk about things without triggering the debooster. There isn't really evidence that this helps or hurts post discovery, so people mostly do it out of an abundance of caution, which is what seems to have happened here.
Nowadays the youth call it corn or p*rn or just (insert corn emoji here).
Re: Where Will Virtual Reality Take Us?
#50As a parent of a 6 month old, I really worry about this stuff. I fear that once she is even a little older, this technology will be so good that it will make the real world seem intolerable.
As parent of a 7 year old…you’ll figure it out. We try to avoid an “abstinence only” approach to tech (which doesn’t work once the kid goes to school or a friends house), and be very deliberate about what is allowed and not allowed. You’ll figure it out, but take the time you have now to discuss with your spouse what your approach is going to be. Good luck!