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MBAs who can't find jobs

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Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#51

Post by flkiwi »

matwood wrote: post #23
flkiwi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take that a step further: have a personal "business plan" for what you are going to accomplish and treat professional school like a job with that goal as your job description. I went to a non-top-tier law school, but I finished very high in my class and knew exactly what I wanted to accomplish (and was largely debt-free in doing so). I ended up where many of my Harvard Law friends did with substantially less fin…

> have a personal "business plan" for what you are going to accomplish and treat professional school like a job This is how people should treat any schooling. My plans weren't as thought out when I went to undergrad long ago, but even something as simple as 'pick a major that has a high likelihood of financial stability' helps. > I will advise anyone who listens that getting 3-5 years of work experience Don't many of…

Yes, and while I am deeply skeptical of many MBA programs' value, the work requirement is one very good thing about b-schools (note I limited my comment to prospective lawyers).

I don't mind a major that, by itself, has limited financial utility. My own degree is laughably unprofitable. In my experience, you can accomplish the exercise of developing excellent research and writing habits, time management, etc. using just about any degree. In hiring, I also like to see someone who is more than their job, who has interests and motivations beyond the blinders of their profession. But, to your broader point, _thinking about what you want to accomplish_, even if it ends up changing completely, is better than just marking the box of "going to college".

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#52

Post by ehutch79 »

hammock wrote: post #34
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the essence of an MBA education? I know it involves accounting and finance, but how hard is it to simply pick that up in a night course? What I'm really curious about is the actual people management that is taught in MBA schools, and surviving middle management Machiavellianism. Is this explicitly taught in MBA schools? Suppressing labor costs? Anti-union? Bypassing regulatory costs? Acquiring regulatory capt…

You would learn that in office hours or your internships In the classroom, the emphasis typically is on business ethics and responsible leadership.

Evidence would suggest those arn't things MBAs take away from their degree...

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#53

Post by beaeglebeached »

hotpotamus wrote: post #33
paulpauper wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. But what about all the "help wanted" signs I hear about from the media. I think it's more like they don't necessarily need a work, but are more like looking for candidates who may be offered a job.

Would you rather work at a McDonald's mopping up puke for $14/hour, driving heavy equipment in a heat index of 120 degrees for $20/hour, or anything an MBA might be expected to do?

Where are you getting equipment operators for 20? I live in very cheap area and an unlicensed joker with a tiny Kubota backhoe charges 80 an hour. A licensed contractor, double.

I rented my own to excavate my house, rental charges with full delivery and maintenance only 40/hr which leaves a good 120 for labor overhead.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#55

Post by 535188B17C93743 »

spamizbad wrote: post #35

I think it really boils down to there being too many of them. We used to award about 70K MBAs each year. In the 2010s we awarded close to 200K every year. We've declined somewhat but we're still minting tons of degrees. Even factoring in our economic growth in the US, there's just no way there's actually that much demand for people with this training.

I think it's important to note how they're highlighting top MBA programs though where admissions numbers haven't changed a ton and are "typically" still highly sought after.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#56

Post by itronitron »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #31
JCM9 wrote: post #21

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. B) Over the last decade I’ve observed the MBA becoming a lot less fashionable than it once was. I get the whole “it’s a great networking experience” thing but as a value-add degree there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something…

What is the essence of an MBA education? I know it involves accounting and finance, but how hard is it to simply pick that up in a night course? What I'm really curious about is the actual people management that is taught in MBA schools, and surviving middle management Machiavellianism. Is this explicitly taught in MBA schools? Suppressing labor costs? Anti-union? Bypassing regulatory costs? Acquiring regulatory capt…

It will vary by school, but accounting and finance are typically just a small piece. Basically an MBA covers all major topics that impact the functioning of a business, marketing strategy, HR, leading people, economics, information systems, operations management, quality control, etc.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#57

Post by hotpotamus »

beaeglebeached wrote: post #53
hotpotamus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather work at a McDonald's mopping up puke for $14/hour, driving heavy equipment in a heat index of 120 degrees for $20/hour, or anything an MBA might be expected to do?

Where are you getting equipment operators for 20? I live in very cheap area and an unlicensed joker with a tiny Kubota backhoe charges 80 an hour. A licensed contractor, double. I rented my own to excavate my house, rental charges with full delivery and maintenance only 40/hr which leaves a good 120 for labor overhead.

South Texas, so you also need to speak Spanish. If you paid equipment operators here $200K+/year, you'd have to hire security to control the crowd of people beating down your door to apply for a job.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#58

Post by WJW »

nsxwolf wrote: post #45
Etheryte wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Measuring progress by application numbers, and similarly implying that some arbitrary number is too low, is honestly silly. The higher your application count the more you're wasting your time spraying and praying. Focus on leads that are either realistic or just out of reach and work on those, applying to countless jobs that aren't even remotely relevant to your skillset is a waste of your own time.

I mean, I am assuming serious job seekers would only be applying to relevant roles. I've applied to several hundred positions that are very much in line with my experience and skillset since summer without success - I would assume someone who has never worked in tech would need to be applying for at least as many positions as I have.

This is wild to me. I've applied to 4 jobs in my life and been hired for 3 of those. I can't imagine having to write hundreds of individual cover letters. Is this one of those US vs EU differences?

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#59

Post by contrast »

tcgv wrote: post #42
JCM9 wrote: post #21

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. B) Over the last decade I’ve observed the MBA becoming a lot less fashionable than it once was. I get the whole “it’s a great networking experience” thing but as a value-add degree there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something…

> there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something I disagree. A career in management is very different from a specialist career, and both are essential. I made the switch from an IC (individual contributor) position to tech management about five years ago and received proper training at my company. My anecdotal exper…

I suspect the poster you’re responding to would say you are agreeing with them, not disagreeing.

I took that post to be a criticism of people who seek to go into management without the expertise you will have gathered as an IC, or without the industry or domain knowledge you will have as you go transfer to the management track.

They weren’t criticising management, but rather the “MBAs who rock up” without the necessary expertise to do a good job (and quite often not even much experience of actually managing).

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#60

Post by euroderf »

TrackerFF wrote: post #50

Pre-face: MBA here I got my MBA covered by my employer, but honest to god - I didn't learn or see much new. Prior to that I had a MSEE, as well as a Bachelor in Econ and Business Administration. All the classes were just mixes of core finance/accounting/management classes. Had electives, but again, nothing I wouldn't have learned on the job or in my own spare time. I guess you can get some academic/knowledge value if…

"Jack of no trades, master of... blab."
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